Bias Starts Early—Talk to Your Kids with Julie Kratz

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Lindsay Lyons: Today, I'm joined by Julie Kratz on the podcast. For context, this was recorded August 11th of 2021. Now, let me tell you about Julie. she is a highly acclaimed TEDx speaker and inclusive leadership trainer who lead teams and produce results in Corporate America. After experiencing many career pivot points of her own, she started her own speaking business with the goal of helping leaders be more inclusive, promoting diversity, inclusion and allyship in the workplace. Julie helps organizations foster more inclusive environments. She's a frequent keynote speaker, podcast host and executive coach.
She holds an M. B. A. from the Kelley School of Business at Indiana University. She is a certified master coach and is a certified unconscious bias trainer. Her books include Pivot Point: How to Build a Winning Career Game Plan, ONE : How Male Allies Support Women for Gender Equality, and Lead Like an Ally : A Journey Through Corporate America with Strategies to Facilitate Inclusion. Her new children's book is called Little Allies. You can find Julie at nextpivotpoint.com, @nextpivotpoint on social or on LinkedIn. Let's go ahead and hear from Julie Kratz.

00:01:11
Hi, I'm Lindsay Lyons and I love helping school communities envision bold possibilities, take brave action to make those dreams a reality, and sustain an inclusive, anti-racist culture where all students thrive. I'm a former teacher leader turned instructional coach, educational consultant and leadership scholar. If you are a leader in the education world, whether you're a principal, superintendent, instructional coach or a classroom teacher excited about schoolwide change like I was, you are a leader. And if you enjoy nerding out about the latest educational books and podcasts, If you're committed to a lifelong journey of learning and growth and being the best version of yourself, you're going to love the Time for Teachership podcast. Let's dive in.
Lindsay Lyons: Okay. Julie Kratz, welcome to the Time for Teachership podcast.
Julie Kratz: Thank you for having me.
Lindsay Lyons: I'm so excited for this conversation. Do you want to add anything, before we get started, to the professional bio section that I've just read.
Julie Kratz: Oh my gosh.

00:02:15
Yeah, that's all the fancy credentials and all that fun stuff and books. But I think more central to me and my life for this work is that we've just got to make this a better place for this next generation of little allies. I really feel really strongly that after speaking in Corporate America for many, many years and experiencing it myself. You know, trying to change behavior later in life is kind of difficult versus not impossible, but a little more difficult than if we started a little earlier and just set the tone right out of the get go. So that's been a big realization for me in this work and a real source of passion as well.
Lindsay Lyons: That is awesome and so true. I think I also came to the work that I do in education the same way where I was into like adult spaces and my undergraduate degree was in gender women studies and I was like, all right, how do we do gender equity and all this stuff? And I was like, we need to start super early. Like I need to stop working with adults and like start with kids. So that's awesome that we have that similar kind of realization.


00:03:19
One of the things I love to know just right off the top is what your idea of education or your dream for education is. And I pulled from Dr Bettina Love who describes freedom dreaming as dreams grounded in the critique of injustice, to kind of think about really relevant to the work you're doing, what that dream could hold in terms of justice work.
Julie Kratz: Yeah. Such a great question. And you know, I like to dream big. I think about, you know, this next generation. I mean, let's be honest about the problems that they're facing were centuries away from real equity, real equality, whether that's gender or race or any of these social constructs. And to me that means like that happening sooner. Like my dream is like my daughter shouldn't have to wait 200 plus years for gender equality. And really thinking about all humans, especially as children not being treated differently based on differences they can't control, you know. No one can control their biological sex or you know how they even identify with gender.


00:04:29
You know, a lot of this we've realized is very innate or obviously skin color should not change your lived experiences. So my dream for this next generation of little allies is that they find a way to accelerate social change. And let's be honest, adults need to be a part of dismantling these systems that don't work. They don't work if they don't work for some. They don't work for all whether that's education, politics, like all of these constructs that we have just want these little kiddos to have a more accelerated path to positive social change.
Lindsay Lyons: I love that and I think so many times kids have better answers than adults have, particularly when it's creative thinking and like how do we do something different than we've always done it and just giving them space to play with that. And like you said, accelerate that path I think is not only possible, but probably our best shot.
Julie Kratz: Oh for sure. You know, I joke like when I wrote the children's book, I thought, well, I don't have necessarily that obviously magic bullet. There is no magic bullet solution to this problem, but I really struggled to have this conversation with my kids about, you know, diversity, inclusion, social justice and I'm like, if I'm struggling with this and I do this for a living, like certainly there's a lot of caregivers out there that probably struggle with us and parents and educators. And the secret to it has been, as I have shared the book and read the book with kids, really do to your point have way better insights, like way better insights, way better questions.


00:06:07
So actually the secret to it is you have this tool to start the conversation and you're going to be schooled by your kid. It's not the other way around.
Lindsay Lyons: I love that and I think you are speaking to, in that response to, kind of the almost mindset shifts that we really need people to go through in terms of adults who are interacting with children and being able to have the critical conversations and being able to have conversations both with adults and children, you know, and people who work with children. And so I'm wondering, either what helped you to kind of have those conversations and be able to be in that space or what has been helpful to you as you work with adults or children to help people kind of get into that mindset of like we should be having this conversation and I can do this and here's how I guess...
Julie Kratz: Yeah, well, you know, this all started, so seven years ago I started my business focus on diversity and inclusion training in the corporate space. And then about two years ago I ran into another D. I. practitioner and you know, we connected on LinkedIn, we had a chat over the phone and her name is Simone. And I just like kind of connected in a way and it was through the story about her daughter and she shared a really painful story about her daughter.


00:07:22
It was the time like three in preschool and some kid went up to her and was like, you don't belong here. And they impacted. It was about race, you know, nine times out of ten these situations, not always about race, but usually. And our daughter is black and you know, they had to have this whole conversation with the school and she ended up changing schools and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is absolutely unacceptable. And so it really started this catalyst for the our Inclusion School Podcast that we now interview experts on this subject and that's how we've learned just out of curiosity about it. And I think that's what really I've discovered through all the interviews and all the people we've talked to, in books that we've read, is that curiosity is so important as a parent, as a caregiver, as an adult. Your brain stops being curious as we get older. We think we have all the answers. We've been there, done that and that's what's so beautiful about children is they're curious about differences. They do see differences. The thing that we always talk about is, it's okay to see the difference is. Absolutely you see them, but it's not okay to treat people differently based on those differences. And that's really I think also understanding that bias starts early. Our brains are wired for bias and so much of it is cemented by age 12.


00:08:41
So yeah, we're talking later in life. It's like, well good, good luck. You know, all that hard wiring sitting there and it's hard to undo. But kids start to see differences as early as like six months. They prefer caregivers that have the same skin color to them at that age and then like 2-4, these biases start forming. So if we're not careful, we don't have these conversations, we don't equip them with tools and information, you know, they're going to repeat the mistakes of the past. They're basically absorbing the same images and media. They're consuming the same programming from a gender construct and racial construct lens. They're getting this all through their environment and they need tools. They need information. They need books. They need stories. They need conversations to help them be more inclusive and unfortunately doesn't happen naturally.
Lindsay Lyons: Yeah. And I love that you're speaking to what those tools might be and the fact that stories can be a tool and you wrote the book, Little Allies, which is awesome. I watched a video of you reading it, which I think people can see on your website, just so great.


00:09:46
I'm curious to know, I don't know if you want to talk about that book or other tools or techniques that you use when working with youth or when talking to adults about how to work with youth. But I'm curious to know what the actions are that people can take to really have those conversations and facilitate those conversations in a way that is generative, that provokes curiosity that keeps people in that space.
Julie Kratz: Yeah, conversation tracks who, you know what we try to do is notice differences. So we were at the pool or the playground or the skating rink, you know, just saying, hey, I noticed that we were some of the only white people there, which by the way, doesn't happen very often. But the skating rink is an example of when that happened. Did you notice that? It's like, yeah, it's no big deal mom. And I was like, oh, okay. And like sometimes it's the shortest conversation, or you know, at the pool. We have a kid in our neighborhood with special needs and you know, we just talked about openly about, hey, did you notice I really like how you played with him?

00:10:49
Did you notice, that he communicated a little bit differently? And she's like, yeah, well his brain is just different. That's okay. He just recognized red of the get go. I was like, I really love that you we're really inclusive and we use that language inclusive with him. It's like, yeah, of course mom. I'm gonna be nice to everybody. I'm not going to do things differently. So it just is acknowledging that and I'm by no means a perfect parent. She's by no means a perfect kid. Like we have issues. But I think recognizing differences when you see them acknowledging, recognizing positive experiences with differences and just helping make sure that you know, you're a safe place where she can come and share things because microaggressions like the subtle little signals, people don't belong happened. They start happening early, sometimes sort of like quite frankly, just aggressions. But my daughter had a situation on the school bus not too long ago where a little girl came up to her and said that the boy that she liked, she has first grade crush that for what that's worth. The boy that she likes.

00:11:52
This girl said she couldn't be with him because it was illegal. Kid just happens to be a kid of color, which probably why she said that, right? And so in the moment, you know, because we've had these conversations, my daughter knew to say to her, I think that's racism. That's what she said. And then she came home and told me that I'm like, I think racism happened today and she told me the story and you know, sometimes I told her it's not always about race, but in that situation, I think it probably was. And she's like, yeah, it was because of his skin color. Like that's just not okay. And the last thing I'll say is kids pick up on the conversations you're having with other people. Right? So we went on this long family vacation this summer. And as I'm talking, you know, catching up with a bunch of friends and family as we kind of do this tour, you know. James sits with us and kind of listens in. He jumps to the conversation and there was several times we brought up the school bus story and she really saw it as like, oh like this is like important, so important that my mom's gonna bring it up, right? And talk about it and unpack it and Jane kind of got to be not the savior, not the star of the story, but like I think she got to be recognized in a way that affirmed her in front of others too.


00:13:04
So then she saw, oh, this is important. This is something we do. Last like tangible things I'd share is just really pay attention to the consumption of media with your kids. There's a lot of problematic movies and Youtube channels out there and again starts early. I was shocked to find some of the stuff that my daughter was watching and I don't watch everything. I'm pretty hands off parent. But I am a believer in being intentional with the movies that there is diverse representation that women have speaking roles. 72% of films, male speaking role. It's just unfortunate and there's some really good ones out there. They're doing such a better job. You know, the Little Mermaid vs Moana, a drastic difference in representation race, gender just way better. The later films, so pay attention that in your bookshelf. I was shocked to take a hard look at my kids bookshop and be like a lot of white characters, a lot of animals, not a lot of kids of color.


00:14:07
And the kids of color books are usually centered on hard issues. They're rarely just a story that a kid enjoys. So you know, it's great to buy the book like be an anti-racist or differences are appreciated when there's like these really nice titles that I think adults. Get titles that your kids would like that just happened to center kids of color, kids with disabilities, kids that are gender fluid, like whatever aspect of it weave those dimensions into it. And look at your bookshelf and I tossed a few books and consciously adding a few each month. There's no perfect book, but there's some really good ones out there.
Lindsay Lyons: I love those recommendations for parents and caretakers and also for teachers. Right? When you look at your school library or your classroom library and thinking about the books that you're offering to kids during free reading time or the books you're reading as a whole class. I think there's often kind of reluctant to let go of a book that you already have curriculum for and you already have all these lessons, but it is so critically important to be able to ask those questions about who was represented, who is centered, who was de-centered and marginalized.


00:15:12
And I love that everything you said is relevant for anyone working with young people in whatever role that is. And so I really appreciate just all of the identities that you specifically named. And then also talking about the variety of media that maybe as a caretaker or a teacher, we don't actively see them engaging with it, but it's there. And so I almost think I take the stance of trying to balance that scale and so tipping just completely to the other end of what's typically not represented in mainstream media. And I'm just going to do all of that because they're going to get these mainstream representation in other places.
Julie Kratz: Yeah, they're going to see all those images. Don't worry. They'll see whiteness, right? I will see saviorism, they will see all these problematic things. Don't worry, they're not going to miss that message. But what if they had a more balanced message, right? And I try to talk about that too. If you see the Save the Day, you know, White Knight type of situation that happens all too often in older films and fairy tales. You know, we talk about that and why that's problematic. Like it's not that we're going to like hide the stories, right?

00:16:15
But you raise a really good point. I think just to be conscious of all those dimensions of diversity and just weave them in. You know, you don't have to have this overt conversation about racism or sexism with kids. And I think that's the fear factor with parents and caregivers like, oh, shoot, I'm not opening that can of worms and probably the biggest pushback that I get for this messages. We want to protect our children, right? If I talk to them about racism, I might actually make them racist, which there is absolutely no evidence to support that. That's true. That's just your fear talking and we fear what we don't understand that if you don't understand racism, you're probably not gonna want to talk to your kids about racism. And isn't that a huge sign of your privilege that you don't have to have that conversation, compare notes for a second with a person of color. They don't have that choice. It's life or death for them not talking to them, especially black boys about policing. You know, putting your son's life at risk as a white parent, you don't have to do that. Like that's that makes life a lot easier, right?


00:17:20
And so I think if you just acknowledge like, I might not have to do some of these hard things. Like maybe this conversation is something that might be helpful, I promise you on the other side of it. Like you just, I know for me and by no means perfect. But I just found myself to be a better parent, a better human. Like you've just been all overall, It's just really helped me have more depth and more meaningful conversations with people and just like an overall appreciation for life to have this conversation, especially with kids because they do say the darndest things. It's just I find it to be totally fascinating personally.
Lindsay Lyons: Yeah, that's such a great point. And I'm thinking too about how the example you shared about your daughter really stepping into what I might call like an Ally role right? In that moment like being able to say like, this is wrong. And yes, in that story, like it impacted kind of her in a way, but like she wasn't really the center of the story necessarily and still being able to step in and be like, no, that is racism and I'm going to call that out, you know, at a very young age and I think that's really powerful and a lot of your work.


00:18:29
I think you published a book on this right? Lead Like an Ally and allyship being really important. Do you have any thoughts for folks who are trying to step into that active allyship role not being, you know, performative ally, but like an actual, you know, co- conspirator ally, whatever language you want to use. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
Julie Kratz: Yes, the performance of ally? Just for listeners, just to get clarity on that term. If you haven't heard it before, it's like sitting on the sidelines. It's like I'm gonna read my book, listen to my podcast check. You know, and the white people love to do this. I mean look at the activity around Black Lives Matter a year ago versus now. I mean, come on, very frustrating how short term minded we are. But and I think that's the hesitance of people of color to really trust people in this conversation because they've seen a lot of that sitting on the sideline behavior and again, that's your privilege. You don't have to stay in this day in and day out. Your life is not going to fundamentally change either way. I would argue. It probably would, but you might not see it that way. And that performance of an ally isn't doing the hard work, isn't actively using their voice.

00:19:32
And what an active ally does, which is really different, is they don't center themselves. So being an ally is not about you. It's let go of your ego, It's not about you. There's no rescue cape needed. It's more about putting yourself in an uncomfortable position a lot of times, just use your voice. I'm just like, you know, calling out, I think that feels like racism or like even just my musical terms like that. But like what did you mean when you said that? Like that didn't sit well with me, right? I'm calling out those microaggressions for other people and not standing by and letting bad things happen on your watch because it's just not okay as an ally. And other things active allies do that are different from a child's perspective, I think it's really important that they diversify who they spend time with, right? You're taking inventory of your network, taking inventory of your kid's friend network. You know, how many diverse kids, with diverse backgrounds are they spending time with that? Would you know, who are you having inviting into your home? Who are you spending time with and exposing your kids to? It says a lot about your values and what's really valued and active allies amplify the voices of others.

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00:20:40
This is works for adults, but certainly for kids. You know, the kids getting picked on, bullying of course was a huge issue. And in a way you can be an active ally, but also a quiet ally. Let's just go sit with that kid. You know, I, we talked about that as like, just go over and sit with them so they're not alone, right? You don't have to be like, do do do, I'm going to save the day and how you're treating him. It's not okay, not on my watch. Like nobody wants that. That's like, makes it all about you and not the person actually needs the support and that's not sustainable. But being with somebody, showing them that you see them and as children, I mean this is where it really strikes an emotional chord with me. Like every child deserves to feel, seen, heard and belong. Like no child should not feel those things, especially based on moments, they can't control their skin color or what country they were born into. Like that's no one gets to control those things. So why should someone be treated differently based on those things? And if you can help kids, all kids feel seeing her can belong as an ally, I just don't think there's anything more important to our humanity, honestly.


00:21:48
Lindsay Lyons: Yes, and it reminds me of, like this is one of the things that I think is critically important when we're measuring success of the school. Things like belonging or do children feel like they have a voice? Are they taken seriously by adults or they taken seriously by other kids? Like do they matter? And I know that you've talked a little bit about you know, measurement and how do we measure D. I. And you know, maybe that from a corporate perspective, I'm not sure, but what do you think about in terms of an education space or even the corporate space in terms of what we measure influencing, you know, our actions or what is important to measure in this space.
Julie Kratz: That's so good. Most of my work is still on the corporate side. That is what pays the bills. This is like my passion project. So I know I'll start with corporate and then like we can maybe brainstorm a little bit because I'd love your input on the education side. But you know, representation numbers, that's the obvious one, right? Like you want to measure what matters. And so for my corporate clients, like I was like so they're like diversity and inclusion is very important to us.


00:22:49
We did this corporate statement and we have this thing that sits on the shelf and you know, they have all the boxes checked and I'm like so how are you measuring it? Oh wow. It's really hard for us to measure just like all these excuses and like, no, pull your H.R. data. That is not hard to measure. You've got it, you just don't like it so you don't want to share it. And you know, anything that's important to measure in business... I always joke like it's not important if you're not measuring it. So representation numbers out of minimum, those are usually race and gender. Sometimes you can measure sexual orientation, but you know, 50% of people are closeted in the workplace. So that's a rough one, disabilities, you know, whatever your dimensions you want to really prioritize. And don't just measure it like blanket for the whole organization or you know, in this case of school. You want to see it like by level, right? And so in the corporate environment especially, it's like frontlines, diverse and then like suddenly it stops. She worked her way into the top. So like you want to do that. I think in a school system that would parlay into your employees, right? Your staff as well as your children and different grade levels would probably be helpful to know.

00:23:52
And that of the minimum and then I think you raise a much better point though about, that's diversity. Diversity is representation. Inclusion is a behavior. So you want to measure behaviors and perceptions of behaviors too. So like just like you just said, it would be really fun to do some pulse surveys. I don't know how you do this with kids or you know the faculty or you know, whoever got involved. But do I feel like I have a voice? Is my voice heard? Do I feel like I belong here? Am I judged differently based on my differences? You know, just asking some standard questions and getting real data on that, measuring it over time and making sure it's going in the right direction.
You know, the last thing I'll say with scorecards and measurement is it can create, if it's not done well, it can create a zero sum game. Well great, now we just care about diversity. So I'm the white guy and I don't matter. No, of course the world is built for you. Like don't worry, it's not changing overnight. You're still good. But I think you have to frame it as we want to get better. Not like an affirmative action type of situation where we have to get X by this date. I do like goals,

00:24:54
but I think sometimes when we set really bold goals, it can create an infighting amongst people. And you already get it. In my community, we have this, I'm just gonna say, problematic parents that are very against diversity training, diversity in our schools. And that's because I think that, you know, they're all white, and they're mostly mother, mostly women. But a lot of men too,, that see it as like I'm gonna lose something. My kids gonna have something to lose from this conversation. We can't have that happen. It has to be about all people feeling, seen, heard, and belong, and race in general. Part of that, but it's really about all human beings. Again, feeling those things. So I think the balance of representation data and then making sure you have perception data around behavior too is important.
Lindsay Lyons: And I think that mirrors a lot of what's happening in the education space is as well. Looking at particularly nationally, now our student body as the United States nation has, I think hit if not surpassed the point where white students are now less than 50% or approaching that.

00:26:00
And the teaching staff is predominantly white women still like overwhelmingly so like, you know, 80 something percent, 90%. And so just that representation too. And like you're saying not just looking at the staff, but looking at, you know, the staff and who they're teaching and can students see themselves reflected in the staff. And the teaching staff, like you said at each level, so not just, you know, who drives my bus or who is the attendant worker, but like who is my teacher, who was my principal, who is my superintendent, you know, at all levels, we need to see that representation.
And then just a quick note on, for any listeners who are interested in those measurements, things, I love that you brought that up. Like how do we do that in terms of belonging. So I have a student voice survey that I developed for my dissertation, which I've shared as a preview before. So I can drop that link in the show notes. But also Panorama is a wonderful educational company that has surveys on their website that you can take and use for free that measure things like belonging. I think they have a whole D and I series where there's like several sub scales there. And so their stuff is excellent as well.

00:27:04
But there's so much cool movement in that direction. I think about measuring voice and belonging for students, that's really exciting to me.
Julie Kratz: I'm visiting their website just after we speak. I'll be checking them out. That's super cool. I didn't even know about that. And I love that you have a survey too. I have to be sure to share that with their inclusion school listeners. That's awesome.
Lindsay Lyons: Yeah. I'll definitely share that with you. as we're kind of like wrapping up thinking about how people are going to take action and we're listing all these techniques and tools that they can use, what is maybe one thing that you would encourage the listener to do after they end this episode they go live their life and really try to bring out the value of justice and in working with youth and just being themselves in the world. What's one thing you would recommend that they do as a kind of a starting point.
Julie Kratz: Do something. And I know that sounds super simple. But again, this performative allyship behavior like sitting on the sidelines, this huge problem, especially if you're in the majority group. You know, especially if you're white, especially if you're able bodied, especially if you're straight this gender a man, you know, like your voice is so important.

00:28:13
And I think people get lost in this. Like I'm just one person. How can I influence this massive problem, right? And honestly keeps me up at night. Just do something. Take one step, a baby step, right? Read a book with your kids that have diverse characters. You know, there's actually more animals in children's books than kids of color. So like this is a real problem. In your bookshelf, probably doesn't look a lot different than mine did several years ago. There's no shame in that, but you can get better. Watch a film, a documentary, you know, depending on your kids' ages, for really young adults. you could have some really meaty conversations with your kids about this stuff and their perceptions, and you again, we'll probably learn way more from them than they will from you, keep your ears open.
But take one step, one step and stay on the journey. And I always talk about allyship is a journey. It is not a destination. There are no perfect allies. There's a lot of bumbling and stumbling along the way. I screw stuff up on a daily basis and that's because I'm learning and unlearning things. And unfortunately we live in a world where we're taught a version of history in society that's just not frankly true.

00:29:21
It's very painful to unpack that, but stay on the journey because your voice does matter and at that, there's no end or rainbow at the end. There is like just recognition of again, being better, getting better. And being more inclusive is just it improves you just doesn't overall human.
Lindsay Lyons: I love that recommendation. And actually I love that you also mentioned that we are constantly learning and growing ourselves right? There is no kind of endpoint. We're not just perfect. And so as you think about things that you have been learning lately, it could be related to what we've been talking about. It could be anything. What is something that you have been learning about lately?
Julie Kratz: Oh my gosh. I just watched a documentary. Speaking of documentaries, this is probably more for older kiddos. Like my daughter is not ready for this one, but this changes everything. It's about gender representation and film. Gina Davis has an institute for gender representation and what I loved about the documentary is a lot of times white women come in and make it all about white women, but it actually had a really good diverse representation of women of color and they talked about Shonda Rhimes and Frozen and you know, just some of the wins and some of the wins that we've had in the in the industry.


00:30:33
But also you know, it's funny that over time we're like okay, this movie came out, it changes everything, you know. And how many times that one silver bullet does not and how it's a continued effort over time. So the title in itself is just kind of a play on the fact that no, things are not changing that quickly and they have tons of data. So if you like data, tons of data, at a minimum, you know, watch it with your partner. If you have kiddos that are, I would say, 12+ and just ask like: What did you see? What did you learn? Because I live in this space that I learned a ton about that through that documentary. So that's something that I've learned about recently.
And then I would also say there's increasingly a lot of young adult books about diversity. So Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man was an adult book, but then was rewritten for young adults called Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Boy. I read both of them and I was like, huh? You know, I could just see how the messages were more simple and relevant for the young adult, but same content, a lot of the same stories.

00:31:34
So you could read that like with your young adult, you know, compare notes and like, what did you learn? What did you see? Like what was hard for you? It was something you're taking away and just those conversations again over time, I find to be just so helpful. So yeah, stay on the journey. It's definitely a tenuous journey, but one worthwhile.
Lindsay Lyons: Those are excellent recommendations, I need to watch. This changes everything now because that sounds like my kind of documentary. Finally, where can listeners learn more about you, connect with you online, grab, listen to your podcast, any of that stuff.
Julie Kratz: Yeah. Yeah. So we've got two websites. So if you're interested in the conversation with kiddos, the Little Allies. So thelittleallies.com. We've got a downloadable discussion guide and Ally Promise. That's something I'm really proud about, just going through the promise and your kid can sign the certificate. It's a really cute conversation started to. And then of course you can order the book. 100% of online proceeds are going towards nonprofit and organizations doing this work.

00:32:37
So this is a passion project. You don't make a lot of money off Amazon sales. With the money we do make, we are funneling right back into the community. And then from a corporate space if you're interested in corporate stuff : nextpivotpoint.com. There again, you'll find tons of free resources and guides on, you know, we talked about like the diversity dictionary, you know. So if you want to get more education yourself before talking with your kids about this, I would recommend going there as well.
Lindsay Lyons: Amazing. Julie Kratz, thank you so much for being on the show.
Julie Kratz: Thanks, Lindsay. This is awesome.
Lindsay Lyons: Thanks for listening amazing educators. If you loved this episode, you can share it on social media and tag me @lindsaybethlyons or leave a review of the show, so leaders like you will be more likely to find it. To continue the conversation, you can head over to our Time for Teachership Facebook group and join our community of educational visionaries. Until next time, leaders, continue to think big, act brave, and be your best self.
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get the ally promise & discussion guide here

Other resources mentioned in the episode: 

• Lindsay's Student Voice Survey
• Julie's Resources List for Antiracists and Developing Allies 
• Julie can be found on: www.thelittleallies.com and www.nextpivotpoint.com 

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