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This episode walks through the steps of a practice in which instructional leadership teams can identify trends in pedagogy across classrooms. We’ll focus on how to collect data that centers student experience over teacher actions and what to do once the trends are identified.
Why? We know from Hattie’s (2018) research that collective teacher efficacy has a bigger impact on student learning than anything other factor studied. Teachers, like students, are also more invested in what they co-create or choose for their own learning. In a learning walk, a team visits several classrooms to identify team-wide or school-wide trends. Takeaways are shared out, highlighting strengths and successes and identifying a next step(s) to support an area of growth. The focus on broad trends instead of specific teachers’ skills lowers the stakes and fosters a culture of collective growth. What are the steps?
Final Tips
To help you implement Learning Walks in your school or district, I’m sharing my Learning Walk Protocol slide deck with you for free. And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 143 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below. TRANSCRIPT I'm educational justice coach Lindsay Lyons. And here on the time for teacher podcast, we learn how to inspire educational innovation for racial and gender justice design curricula grounded in student voice and build capacity for shared leadership. I'm a former teacher leader turned instructional coach. I'm striving to live a life full of learning, running, baking, traveling, and parenting because we can be rockstar educators and be full human beings if you're a principal, assistant superintendent, curriculum director, instructional coach or teacher who enjoys nering out about co-creator curriculum of students. I made this show for you. Here we go. Welcome to an episode that is going to talk about a protocol for censoring student experience in professional learning blocks. I am so excited for this one. This is a practice deep dive. The freebie for this episode is going to be a slide deck for learning block protocol that you can use lots of stuff. Here. Let's get right to it. In this episode, we are talking about learning walks and specifically learning walks that center student experience and are less about. 00:01:06 And I think this is ultimately the intention of learning walks as designed but less about evaluating teacher performance. And more about what is the experience of students in these classrooms and what are the trends that as an instructional leader or an instructional leadership team, I can quickly identify and make an action plan to support because these are things that I'm seeing across the school, across the community. If you're doing this at a district wide level or even a department or grade team, if you're doing it at that level. So we're quickly identifying trends that span multiple classrooms and then figuring out what can I do as a leader to support teachers in this particular area of growth that's been identified. So it's really about us as learners and leaders and supporters of instruction and less about the teachers. I want to make that really clear right up front. It is not a typical observation and even the notes that you take are not going to be shared out in any way to those individual teachers, they're not going to be giving specific feedback to teachers. It's more like we're going to share out to the community at the end in a very growth centered. 00:02:11 This is me learning how to be a better supportive leader instruction kind of way from Hattie's research. Collective teacher efficacy has the biggest impact on student learning more than any other factor that was studied. So if we can have multiple stakeholders on this team, and we can truly have collective future efficacy in the sense of teachers, leaders, uh department heads, coaches, even students and families, if they're available and wanting to be part of this learning walk, I think it should be a really small team but you can have multiple. This is even more reason if this is a common practice at your school to do this at the grade team or department levels. So you can have these regularly kind of ongoing as part of our professional development practice, but also as a way to bring in students, families, teachers to make sure that we're doing what we can to serve the students and the people that we're here for. We want to elevate student and family voice as much as possible and we don't want this just to be leaders walking around as much as possible. We also want to invite teachers in to be able to be part of the conversation of what those trends are and identify those needs and identify the support that those teachers wish they had, right for that specific need. 00:03:17 So in a learning walk, the team is going to visit several classrooms. Typically I suggest 3 to 4 and they're going to identify those school wide or team wide trends. They're gonna share the takeaways out as I said to the whole community, but they're not going to be specific to each teacher, they're going to be. Here's what we observed as a team, we're going to highlight both the strengths and successes as well as next steps to support an area of growth moving forward. So you can kind of tell the community that support will be coming in this way. But also here's all the great stuff we saw and then focusing, as they said on the broad trends instead of specific teachers, skills, what that ultimately is doing there, it's lowering the stakes of, oh I'm coming into a room to observe this particular teacher and give feedback or critique to this particular teacher. And it's fostering a culture of collective growth when we are in it together, when we as teachers and students are co creating those goals and co creating the supports that will come next. We are going to have more investment as teachers to receive that support, to seek out and take advantage of that support and pursue that area of growth. 00:04:24 So how does this work? Step? Number one, you want to form a team and again to support those shared leadership practices, invite as many different stakeholders as you can, students, families, teachers, ideally, the team will have a high ratio of youth to adults. So typically, these are very adult led in the student voice research. We see that if these teams can have a high amount of youth, in fact, more youth than adults. This is really powerful and transformative when it comes to youth in the role of learning walkers. And they are actually stepping into that role of leader and being taken seriously because what they see and what they identify and what they recommend for next steps are actually being done by teachers. So you have that student leadership role and not just the students who are in the role itself in the learning box. Although I think you can have multiple and many students can be part of this, but even the students who just see the students coming in, it's like, OK, I'm represented, I see that my peers are doing this. So I also feel like, you know, I can maybe even after the learning walk or before the learning walk, give those students who are doing this, some student experience data, some information, some ideas, even if I'm not the one at the table making the plan, I have kind of a conduit for sharing that information about my experience in classes. 00:05:40 The next thing is to share as the leader here is what we're gonna focus on because this is a school goal this year. And we really want to amplify student voice, for example. So we're going to try to amplify student voice in the school. That's the goal here it is. And now we're gonna co plan from there or you can collaboratively define the purpose or focus theory that's gonna frame the learning walk. So if you're doing that, you can do it ahead of time if this group has met before or asynchronously kind of gather some ideas and then hit the ground running with those ideas. And when you come in in that morning, you just jump right in with those ideas that people have already kind of surfaced or you can just kind of come in and ask, what are we wanting to do? What are we wanting to look for? What is our goal core it there and then move forward with that? But just know that we need to create enough space for that. If we're taking that approach. Number three, we have gathered the group, we've defined the purpose. Now, with that focus and purpose in mind, we're going to create kind of an observation. Typically, I've called this a look for list. I'm trying to decrease my abs language. 00:06:42 So we are going to kind of collect that experiential data or observe what we can gather what we can in terms of evidence, concrete things. When we go into those rooms, this is how your participants in the learning walk are going to structure their observations and notes to do this. I would invite participants to brainstorm. What is success in the defined focus area look like? Sound like, feel like whatever it is that you wanna use as, as words here. These are the ones I typically use. But experience is the word that I keep coming back to. And then however, you wanna break that apart. For the folks in your particular group. Please do that. I would focus on student actions more than teacher actions. A lot of times we come in and we're like, oh, the teacher did this and the teacher did not do this and the teacher should have done this. Focus on what are the students responses? And they don't have to be actions, they could be even non verbal, right? But what are the students experiences in this classroom? Not what is the teacher doing? Now? The student experience is very much may be a result of what the teacher has done or not done in our notes, what we're gonna focus on is that student experience is what we want to really focus on and center. 00:07:54 So let's collect data about that as much as we can, we may converse with the students, we may just silently observe, we may collect more data after if we want to follow up. But for now, let's just think about what we can get from maybe 15 minutes in a classroom with the students. So let's get to that part step four. I was selected about three classrooms to visit. So let host teachers know the focus area being studied, tell them what they were coming in to see if you know it in advance. And if you don't just say, hey, we're looking for broad trends that are gonna support the student experience in our schools, let them know that you are not there to see them. I used to have a principal that would say that and she was like, I'm not here to see you. So don't talk, right? Like as much as possible. Put the student grappling the student voice, the student, you know, experience on display because that's what we're there for. Number five on the day of the learning walk, we're gonna meet as a team. We're gonna review the look for a list. If you have created something in advance, if not, you're gonna core that observation list together, you're gonna remind participants to focus more on student actions than teacher actions. 00:09:05 And optionally, you might choose to use like a video of teacher instruction online el education. They have a whole vimeo channel of a ton of different classrooms in action. So you can pull up one of those and you could say, hey, we're gonna practice as a team right now. Let's just play this video for five or whatever. And then we're going to share our observation data as a practice. So I really like this as a kind of norm activity. You know, what is it like to go through that process? How many times did I find myself actually looking at the teacher? I'm not, it's a student, right? I think that's really um helpful. Next, you are going to visit the classes you have met in the morning, you set the groundwork, set the foundation for what is the experiential stuff? We're gonna go kind of take it and absorb. We are attuned to those things. We've practiced perhaps with a video from online and now we're going to visit the classrooms, I would say for about 15 minutes each though, you can do uh visits for longer, you can do visits for shorter. But I think you collect a lot more data when you're in there for about 1520 minutes. 00:10:10 Also, the different parts of the lesson are going to be more or less student centered just by nature of what they are and what kind of lesson you're observing. So if you know, you know what the first five minutes, everybody's doing like a quick do now or the 1st 10 minutes, we're doing a lot of teacher talk. I would just schedule the time so that you're coming in 10 minutes into the class, you don't need to see it from the beginning. Now, if your focus area is to see something from the beginning go in right at the beginning of every class, right. It it all depends what you're trying to see with equity in mind. We're focusing on student actions and we're observing who is participating and also how and to what degree they're participating. So we want to observe equity in the discussion. I'm just using student discussion as an example because I'm always looking for this. But if only a few students are participating or students are only participating in the questions that have a quote unquote, right answer, we are going to want to focus on that, right? We're gonna want to name that and say, hey, when it's really open ended or the teacher is inviting students to ask questions of for inquiry, right? 00:11:12 I'm not seeing a lot of engagement in, in those moments and we also want to pay attention to small group interactions. So is aggression or affirmation present in those when we do look at teacher actions, because of course, we will as well, we do want to pay attention to what students might be invited to speak, which students get feedback and and what kind of feedback goes to certain students? Right? So the teacher actions are important but in connection to the student experience, right? So for example, a student uh looks really excited and that followed the teacher inviting them to, to share their answer and they had the answer or a student put their head down and that follows the teacher directing them to try an easier question. OK? So then let's say we're done with that first classroom observation. We meet in the hallway, we're gonna do a short hallway huddle. So this is step seven, each person shares a piece of evidence that they collected and maybe something that they are wondering a notice and a wonder. 00:12:19 I like to use post it notes and color code them just so I can keep track of that. But it also might be a T chart on a blank piece of paper. You might have a graphic organizer that you want to give to everyone, whatever it is that you do to structure this, you're just gonna do a quick share out, kind of do a little huddle kind of circle up each person shares their, uh, I would say notice first and then their wonder, second or you can have each person share, notice, wonder and then go to the next person. You're gonna repeat that for your 3 to 4 classes hallway huddle after each of them and then maybe grab lunch or something. And then in the afternoon when you meet again as a team, you're gonna debrief in this debrief. You may want to use a discussion or data analysis protocol that you typically use in your school and in your community that everyone's familiar with. I think that would be great. You could use a five w like a root cause analysis. We're seeing this thing like what's going on five Ws that helps us get to our next action. Sub lots of things that you can use. Once we get to those identified trends to get to those identified trends, we might want a consensus protocol. That's the five or something to make sure we all agree. 00:13:22 Well, of course, I want to remind everyone of our discussion agreements as well as we discuss those because things could potentially get very emotional if we're talking about really offending some of the ways that we've typically done things that can be uncomfortable for folks. But as a group, once we have synthesized all of that evidence analyzed that we want to identify at least one area for growth and then 1 to 3 next steps to build capacity in that area. So let's say that we have an area for growth that is related to student discussion. To continue that example. In that analysis of all of the evidence, we have noticed that it's it's pretty basic that we just have a lot of teacher talk, right? So our focus area is going to be could even be framed as a goal. I really like framing them as a goal. So it could be 75% of class time is going to be students talk time. And so maybe you have like kind of a goal or area of growth. ABC three next steps that are going to support the subsections of that goal, more talk time is going to include support for the teachers to design lessons where they talk less and the students have enough support and ability and, and excitement and motivation, right? 00:14:41 Based on the lesson to do the work on their own. And the second piece might be that teachers are supported, not just to design the lesson with, you know, maybe a particular protocol that's, that's student centered, but maybe also what kinds of feedback they can give when students are grappling independently or in small groups. What does that feedback look like? And then maybe part three is like, ok, students are maybe working in small groups uh in discussions at their tables. How do they signal that they need help? Right. And so what's the next step to kind of help teachers find a protocol or something that works for them? I like the idea of figuring out the next steps to support your goal or your area of growth under kind of the little subheadings because I think there's big goals that we have to break down in order to get there. Now, the next thing you wanna do is make sure that you share out your findings with staff, share out that area of growth. And also, and this is key, share out all of the strengths and successes that were observed as well. You're going to share out both strengths, I would say load those up, say a bunch and then also share the next step in support of that area of growth, right? 00:15:53 So don't just say, hey, we need to do better at this. Here's how we as a leadership team are going to support you in doing this thing better because this is what we observed. If you are doing a team specific, like a grade specific or department specific learning walk, I would probably just share with those teachers. I don't think you need to share schoolwide unless you're looking at schoolwide trends and you're crossing departments in grade teams, couple final tips. Before we wrap up here, I would say if students are unable to be present when you have the list developed in like the focus area determined and, and they're not able to maybe go on the learning walk team or they are. But you want to do that in advance, you want to have those things set up in advance. What I would suggest ask them maybe in a survey, maybe, you know, have a space set up for a focus group beforehand about what they should observe what they should pay attention to. And then specifically how equity or inequity is present in their classes. If they have any concerns or things that we should be really attuned to as we're, we're looking um as we're excuse me doing our learning walk and observing and taking in that data, you may also want to, if you want to develop a look for a list or an observation list in advance, you may want to use a particular framework. 00:17:10 So like Massachusetts has their own kind of teacher rubric for instruction. Um that is based in culturally responsive practices. You may use something like Danielson or whatever it is, you may want to use kind of that frame and even have it up if you're co creating to be able to tell back to this and say, hey, this is really grounded in, however, we are doing evaluations, but this is not an evaluation. Finally, I I wanted to just name when you are co creating agreements for the group for the discussion. Just make sure we're considering equity of voice and stakeholder power dynamics. So for example, if you have a bunch of students on this team, every time an adult speaks, maybe a student has to speak next or something, just to make sure that students aren't silenced by, you know, just feeling intimidated of being in a space with a bunch of adults in this world that students often aren't I invited into. And so that's just something to, to be aware of. OK. That's it for our episode. If you are interested in grabbing my learning walk protocol slide deck, you can go to Lindsey Beth lions.com/blog/one 43. 00:18:13 That's this episode's blog post. It'll give you the show notes, all the things and that freebie if you like this episode, I bet you'll be just as jazz as I am about my coaching program for increasing student led discussions in your school, Shane Sapir and Jamila Dugan talk about a pedagogy of student voice in their book street data. They say students should be talking for 75% of class time. Do students in your school talk for 75% of each class period? I would love for you to walk into any classroom in your community and see this in action. If you're smiling to yourself as you listen to right now, grab 20 minutes on my calendar to brainstorm, how I can help you make this big dream a reality. I'll help you build a comprehensive plan from full day trainings and discussion protocols like circle and Socratic seminar to follow up classroom visits where I can plan witness and debrief discussion based lessons with your teachers. Sign up for a nerdy no strings attached to brainstorm. Call at Lindsay, Beth lions.com/contact. Until next time, leaders think big act brave and be your best self. This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better Podcast Network. Better today, better tomorrow and the podcast to get you there, explore more podcasts at teach better.com/podcasts and we'll see you at the next episode.
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In this podcast episode, Crystal Frommert shares the importance of partnering with families in students' education.Crystal emphasizes the power of a simple phone call to build bridges and promote understanding. She also explores the complexities of navigating effective communication in these partnerships and discusses restorative practices for relationship-building with families.
Crystal Frommert, M.Ed, has over 20 years’ experience as an teacher, instructional coach, school board member, adjunct college instructor, technology coordinator, and school administrator. She is the author of "When Calling Parents Isn't Your Calling, a teacher's guide to communicating with parents." She currently teaches middle school math in Houston, where she lives with her husband, daughter, and dog. The Big Dream Crystal dreams of an educational system where teachers partner with parents and families. Alignment to the 4 Stages: Mindset, Pedagogy, Assessment, and Content She focuses on maintaining a mindset of empathy and understanding towards the families she works with. In terms of pedagogy and content, she stresses the importance of communication and respect for the diversity of families. Phone calls are specifically helpful to communicate with families about any of this because you can both listen to each other’s tone. Mindset Shifts Required We can work to overcome any apprehensions about communicating with families. It’s incredibly beneficial to take a moment to challenge any assumptions we have about family backgrounds. Action Steps Make the first contact positive and personalized. Show respect for family titles. (Look at the title on file and/or ask the child if they’re old enough. If you can’t find it beforehand, ask the caretaker once you meet them.) Utilize phone calls more often for better connection and understanding. Alternatively, you may prefer or need to use voice recordings or video.) Use sentence starters. (Crystal has several in her book!) Challenges? Not asking for help when emotions are high. Loop in an administrator if this happens. Set boundaries so families aren’t texting you at 11:00 PM. One Step to Get Started Administrators, invite your teachers to reflect on something dumb you did when you were a teenager (or whatever age group of students you have.) Teachers, be more mindful about when the communication should be an email and when it should be a phone call. Also, send a happy note home when you can! Stay Connected You can find this week’s guest on her website, Twitter, and LinkedIn. To help you implement these practices in your school, Crystal is offering Time for Teachership listeners a complimentary author Q&A for schools who are doing a book study of her book! (Reach out at any of the above links.) And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 142 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below. Quotes:
TRANSCRIPT Today on the podcast, we have Crystal from art. She has a master's in education over 20 years experience as an educator and beyond teaching. She has served as an instructional coach, school board member, adjunct college instructor, technology coordinator, and school administrator. She writes for Edutopia independent school management, NAISS independent school magazine and is the author of When Calling Parents? Isn't your calling a teacher's guide to communicating with parents. We'll talk about that book a lot in the episode. Crystal has presented at local national and international conferences on topics ranging from social and emotional learning to technology integration. She currently teaches middle school math in Houston where she lives with her husband, daughter and dog. Let's get to the episode. I'm educational justice coach Lindsay Lyons. And here on the time for teacher podcast, we learn how to inspire educational innovation for racial and gender justice design curricula grounded in student voice and build capacity for shared leadership. I'm a former teacher leader turned instructional coach. I'm striving to live a life full of learning, running, baking, traveling and parenting because we can be rockstar educators and be full human beings if you're a principal assistant superintendent, curriculum director, instructional coach or teacher who enjoys nering out about co-creator curriculum of students. 00:01:15 I made this show for you. Here we go, Crystal. From, welcome to the Time for Teachers podcast. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here, Lindsay. I'm so glad that you're here. I, we were just talking before we hit record. I have heard you on other podcasts and I'm so excited that you're on this one and I just would love to know if there's anything on your mind or anything that you want listeners to know about you prior to kind of digging into the conversation today. Sure. Well, um I heard about you through podcasts as well. And when I heard you speaking, I was like, everything Lindsay says is already in my brain and we agree on so much already. And um your interview that you gave, it was the first time I've ever heard the word teacher. And I have heard, you know, I work in an independent school and I've heard of headship. Um but teacher, I love it. I love the whole idea around this is, this is a profession, this is what we do. Um We're passionate about this, but there's also learning involved in this and growing. And so I just love the entire term. 00:02:17 So thank you so much for putting it out there. Yes, absolutely. I totally created it for my brain and then I actually realized it was in the academic literature, like the year before I thought of it. And so I was like, oh, this is like an actual defined term. It was very cool. That's great. It's a good word. I'm gonna use it more. I love it because it's like the intersection of like teachers are leaders. Right. But then also that leaders can't be effective leaders if they're not in the classrooms and connected to what's happening. Instruction. I just love the back and forth. It's right. Right. And it gives me, it, it gives me a feeling of it's not just a job that you go to, right. It's something that you invest your, you're learning into your growth into. Um It's, it's a longevity. It's, it's, there's so much more to it than I work at the school as a teacher. Right? There's, it's a, it's a bigger piece than that. That is so well said, oh, I love it. So I am excited to hear more about kind of what, how that plays out in the work that you do. And specifically, I love this idea of freedom dreaming as a concept. Doctor Bettina love talks about it beautifully when she says their dreams grounded in the critique of injustice. 00:03:25 And so I'm curious to know what is that big dream for you? How does that show up in your work? And what are you striving for? Thank you for asking that. Um I am a, I have a unique position and that I'm a teacher and I'm also an administrator. Um I'm the deputy head of secondary at my school. It is an international school here in Houston. And um, but I have always wanted 1 ft in the classroom always. Um because that's what brings me joy, is, is being an administrator brings me joy. Yes, but not as much as it does when I'm working with my middle schoolers on math and um over the years, um as a teacher, this is, I think I'm starting my 23rd year or something like that. Um I've noticed that I've grown so much in the area of partnering with families and parents and caregivers. Um I have a book out called when calling Parents isn't your calling? But I want to be clear that um that's the title, but I don't mean just parents, right. I know that our kids come from very diverse types of families and families come in all shapes and sizes. So not just parents but caregivers, guardians, aunts, uncles, grandparents. 00:04:31 So, um and you know, when I was a beginning teacher, I was so afraid, frankly, just terrified to talk to parents. Um I thought that they would think I was too young or I didn't know what I was doing or anything. They said I would just go. Yes. Yes. Yes, I'll do it. And it took a lot of time, a lot of years and a lot of great mentors in my life to shape how I am today as a teacher and how I, I see partnering with families. Um again, I'm not perfect at it. I don't think I ever will be and I don't think anyone really is perfect at it because there's so many conversations you can have with families. But um back to your question about injustice and inequity and, you know, I think about every single child in my class um deserves that. I'm going to partner with his or her home family life in some way. Um And, and in the book, I talk about how families come from all ranges of di of, of, of engagement. 00:05:32 Um There's a range of engagement from, I want to volunteer every day in your classroom to, you will never get a reply from me ever. Right. So there's, there's a whole range and no matter what the situation is, it's my job to communicate and be um like a, like the boxing analogy to be in their corner for their kid and I can't be in their corner without them and we need to have their back. Um And that takes me reaching out whether that's phone calls, conferences. Email is great. I know some teachers are texting. I'm, I'm too old for that. I don't, I haven't gotten into the texting, texting parents. Um But, you know, I need to listen to some of my younger colleagues who are more into that. So that, that I hope that answers the question that, that's the, the passion I have for building equity, um, around parent partnerships. I love that. And I love specifically the word of partnership because I think so much we think of communication and that often translates to like a one way communication and partnership to me truly feels like more of the goal. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, because we're, we're a team, we're working together. 00:06:35 Absolutely. And I love the boxing analogy as well. I think that's really good. So as you think about kind of where all of the pieces that make up that kind of process of getting to the goal fits, I often think about a lot of different things that make up education, right. So I think about like the mindset of, of teachers and, and educators more broadly, I think of like how we interact with, with students and then ultimately communicate that with families. I think of how we assess and how we communicate about that and partner around that, how we partner around the content. So a lot of times I think families are experts, right? In, in some of the content that we're teaching and we don't invite that in. And then other times, um you know, families are learning alongside of, of students and even alongside teachers sometimes. And so I think there's so much rich potential to have this conversation around. What is it looked like to partner with families and caretakers because often when I do my work. That's the biggest question. It's like I want to do all this justice centered curriculum. I want to have these discussions that are student led and talking about current events. 00:07:41 And I'm curious to know like, how these different pieces might play a role in what that partnership could look like. Yeah. So, like I said, I work at an international school so I work with students who come from many different countries. I think we have 65 different countries represented at our school. Um And I never ever assume anybody's situation. I, you know, I used to, I'm, I'm getting better at it. I don't assume anymore um about someone's background based off, you know, if their parents were born in a different country or, you know, any of that anymore, because I have worked with such a diverse group of kiddos. Um And I do say kiddos, I know it's a little old fashioned but I do say that um they are my kids. So um in working with families, I, when I, one of the things too is um I work with a lot of caregivers or parents who English is not their first language. And um I've noticed that when I would get emails sometimes from families, um especially when I'm, I, I speak a little bit of Spanish and when I type in Spanish, I'm sure it comes across very harsh and when or very, you know, rudimentary and because I'm not that great at it but when someone's writing me and I get a tone that does not seem friendly or, um, soft, um, I used to go, oh, gosh, like they're mad at me. 00:08:58 And, um, then I would all these assumptions just start pouring into my head, um, which is not going to lead you toward that partner partnership. You're not gonna be able to, to team up with that family if you already think, oh, they're mad at me for whatever reason. Um And so I think that, that it has been a gift for me because I now I just pick up the phone. If I sense any sense of tone in their email, I pick up the phone and sometimes I can hear that they have an accent that's different than mine. And maybe it's because they're typing in a language that's not their, their heritage language. That could be, I'm not gonna assume. But when you hear their voice, no matter what language is their first language or what heritage there, their accent comes from when you hear their voice and they hear my voice there is a connection, even if it's over the phone, there is a connection there. Um And so I truly believe in picking up the phone more often than you want to. I know that making phone calls is not all that fun, but it really can be five minutes and that listening to the tone and being able to answer questions back and forth rather than emailing back and forth. 00:10:04 Really is a, just a tiny step towards a huge, um, growth into, into partnering with for that child. Um, and then after you've established that you can start to, you know, email and, and things if you have a short question or things like that. But I truly believe that first conversation. Let's just, let's get rid of all assumptions. Um, Let's get, let's try to look past any of our implicit biases that we have and let's have that phone conversation. I love a lot of these because I, I also my last four years as a teacher was actually in an international school as well. So same kind of um dynamics and like that tone of like trying on either side to communicate in the language that is not, not our heritage language is really tricky to like, that's like one of the final things I think once you're like learning a language that you kind of are able to do, right? I love that like graciousness and kind of inquiry mindedness to say like, I want to know more and I'm gonna connect with the tone verbally. I, I just love that even if language is, you know, um is a barrier, you need a translator. 00:11:10 I think just being able to hear the tone of someone's voice, even if you don't understand the words is so incredible. And I never thought about that until you just said that. So, thank you. Yeah, it speaks volumes. It really does. Absolutely. Yeah. And so I'm wondering, are there other, you know, mindset shifts or challenges that people I know you were saying, like not wanting to pick up the phone in the first place, but are there other things that sometimes you um find yourself coaching around or helping teachers kind of overcome if there's like an initial kind of hesitation to, to picking up that phone or communicating or partnering? Um My, my best advice that I have for teachers, um whether you've been teaching for one year or 50 years is you're very, and I learned this from someone else. I can't take credit for this. I worked for a really great principal who was very strong in his opinion on this, that your very first communication with a family needs to be positive. Um And I think, and I try to do that every single year. Um uh The first week of school is crazy chaotic madness. But I take the time and sometimes I have to work, you know, a little bit extra hours, but that's ok. 00:12:16 I, I take the time to reach out to all of my middle schoolers, uh parents or families um to welcome them to my class and I don't do a general uh boilerplate email. Um I, I individually write it to each family now, of course, some of it's copy pasted because it's very short and very welcoming and, but I will say something unique about their child in every email. Um Also part of that task is I'm very careful about honorifics. We have a, a student information system si s where we can look up. Are you Mr and Mr, are you doctor and Mrs? You know, that's very important. Um And maybe I'm maybe I lean toward the formal side. Um but I think that's important in the beginning until a family tells me, please call me James. I'm going to call them Doctor Smith or whatever it is. Um because I just, I lean toward that professionality of, of the the formality of that. Um So there's a lot of tasks that I'm doing in that very first communication. One, I'm sending a positive message first thing um within the first few days of school. 00:13:21 Um Secondly, I'm learning about a little bit about their family. Um Do the parents have the same last name? Do they have one parent, things like that? Um And using this information system to get that information. And then I'm also telling that family, I see your child um in two days, I can see a lot about a child. I mean, I know they're only in my class for 45 minutes a day because I teach middle school. But I can say Lindsay is really artistic. She is such a creative mind. I'm, I'm looking forward to working with her in algebra. Um, and how would I know that about Lindsay? Well, I see her doodling or I see her, you know, making her notes. Very beautiful, something like that. Or, you know, Keith is hilarious. I love his jokes and his great sense of humor that he brings to the class. Really. It's one sentence and, um, it really does go so far with that first step of building that partnership with, with the families. Hey, it's Lindsay, just popping in here to tell you what today's episode. Freebie is. Crystal is generously offering a complimentary author, Q and A with a school who does a book study with her book. When calling parents, isn't your calling? 00:14:25 If you're interested, grab her contact information at our blog post, Lindsay, Beth lions.com/blog/one 42. Be sure to let her know that we sent you back to the episode. So much of what you're saying is resonating with me because I actually have a 17 month old at the time of this recording. And so I, when I was in the classroom, it was always as a teacher without being a parent as well. And now being a parent, I just see so much of the daycare interaction. Like we got a journal home the other day because it's his first month in the toddler class. And it was like a little thing, like, as you know, you know, he always points to things and asks this and like wants someone to name it for him. And it's like that one sentence, like everything else was pretty generic and not super generic. But, you know, like enough that I was like, I understand this is probably a copy paste from some sort of list. But I was like that one thing was like, you see him like you, you get it and it makes me think also of this first week of school. I think a lot of times we feel as teachers in, in, you know, trying to cover curriculum or something that we have to just cram in curriculum versus truly using that week to get to know students. 00:15:34 And I'm almost envisioning to like to be able to merge those things. Like I, I'm envisioning like even doing like a a video for so you can get the tone with a student when you're like one on one conferencing or something. And like the student and you were like talking to the family member together on your laptop or something. I mean, there's so many possibilities of how you do it even within the school day in a way that's like this authentic kind of we're building relationship and you can see me interact with your kid kind of thing. I mean, just the potential for what you're saying is astronomical. It's so cool and it doesn't have to be email. Um I've, I've worked with some teachers who will use voice recordings um literally a 32nd, you know, on their phone, they record, you know, hey, Miss Smith, I, I love working with Joey. I'm so glad he's in my class. Um, and that might even be better for some people to send something like that. Um, maybe, maybe I'll try that one year but I or a video or something like that. So it doesn't have to be just an email and email is very quick and very fast. Um, but that's another and I think we got a lot of experience with using multimedia during the pandemic. 00:16:39 Um I, one of the things that I would do is is grab a ipad and the students had to submit all of their work electronically, right? While we were remote learning and I would grade their quizzes or tests or whatever it was with my Apple pencil. Um But I would hit record so they could hear me talking as I'm grading, I would say, oh right here, make sure you watch for a negative. Oh, it looks like you forgot to divide by four here or whatever it was. I don't do that anymore, but I got so much more used to using multimedia during that whole time that now I feel less intimidated by voice recording or email or by video. Yeah. Such such a good point. I, I think that that ability to recognize what we did when we were in like adaptation mode, there's so much that we could still carry over or carry over maybe in like a slightly different way. That would be really cool. Um Also what you just have reminded me of the honorifics. I love that you're really careful about that because I think so many times we especially so my background is in gender women studies. And so like thinking about gender as well for, I mean, even like people with students, but especially with, I think family members as well, like we don't always want to assume gender. 00:17:50 And then so sometimes to not assume gender, we don't use the honorific. And so then we use first names and then it's impersonal or then it's like overly personal. So it's like this really complex thing. And so I love the idea of just using student information system one to kind of research ahead of time. But then also just to be able to ask, you know, if you, if someone's not in the system or, you know, another family member tags along to a conference or something like to just always be careful with those honorifics. I just love that you've named that and I wanna make sure listeners heard it because I think it's brilliant. Yeah. And there's some research that I heard from N pr um reported by N pr that um people of color are less likely to be called by their honorifics, um which we need to be careful about, you know, we need to be careful that we're, we're being equitable in our communication. Um And I use them because I, I lean towards the formal and they, that may not be your school culture. Every school culture is different. Um But just being careful with what matches the school culture. Um I know that uh one of my colleagues will say, you know, good afternoon Garcia family, something like that. 00:18:51 Um Or if there's a hyphenated name, you know, um the Garcia Iverson family, something like that. And that is another way that if you don't know the information and you don't want to make assumptions, then you're addressing just the family by using their last name or their two last names. So there are so many variations of that. That's just a personal preference of mine and it fits the culture of our school. But then again, you gotta really read, read the room and read what your school does. Yeah, I, I think that's such an important point too is like reading the room and the culture of the school. But as you said too, there is like a racial component, there's a, a national or immigration component, there's like a language component, there's all sorts of things that would affect uh individual person's preference to be called an honorific or not. And it's so important to, yeah, read all of that context and then when in doubt, ask, right, like just default to this and you can ask the child if they're old enough, you know, you ask an older child. Um Can you tell me how, how does your, how does your caregiver or your grown up? I like to use the word grown up. How does your grown up like to be addressed? 00:19:53 Um And some will say my mom is very insistent on Doctor Smith, you know, like, ok, got it. Um So if you're not sure you can always follow up with the kid and it, and you learn a little bit more about the kids family when you're asking those questions too. Oh, brilliant. Awesome. So you've shared so many specific actions already. I'm wondering if there are additional things that you have either coached teachers on, written about in your book, done yourself found effective in terms of like specific things that we can do as educators to partner with families. Um I can tell you one, I was an instructional coach and um I can tell you this if you are asking a colleague to read your email because you don't wanna hit send because you think it sounds too harsh. That's your clue right there. It's too harsh. If you automatically want to ask somebody for advice, you know, you already know. Um I had a, a great colleague of mine. He was piping mad um because the parent was sending him some not nice emails too, which first of all that should stop. Let's just get on the phone or let's meet face to face with an administrator if you feel more comfortable with that. 00:21:00 Um And he sent me an email and said before I hit send, could you tell me what you think? I'm like, well, first of all, if you're asking me, you already know, and two, he had like all caps somewhere, some places in his email. I'm like, whoa, ok. No. Um, you're letting your emotions get in the way of a professional email here. Um And so I recommended that he make a phone call or make an appointment with the family. He was not open to that um Because he was so angry, which I completely get his emotions were there and they're very real. Um But I said it's time to loop in an administrator. Um So I would say that if you are feeling threatened in any way, you are feeling like this is a toxic situation that um emailing back and forth is not gonna be productive which most of the time it's not. Um get an administrator. Um I really hope that you work at a school that you have that support um And explain to your administrator. Um I have done this and this and this. I've done XYZ. I really need you to be in the room with me when I'm talking with this family. 00:22:03 Um And I really hope that they, they would support you in that. Um And also, you know, teachers who I would say this is generally advice for teachers who are relatively new to the field that you have the right to leave a situation that is getting aggressive or threatening. Um If it's not being productive, you can say very professionally, you know, um, if you're going to continue to talk to me in that way or if you're going to continue to raise your voice, I'm going to leave the room and that's very professional, but you're also respecting your boundaries. Boundaries are extremely important. Um because partnering with parents doesn't mean that you take verbal abuse. It doesn't mean that you take texts at 11 pm. I've actually gotten texts at 1 a.m. before. Um And I don't respond because I have boundaries and um hopefully the families will respect the fact that I didn't reply as a a clue as to that's not OK. Um And you know, I know some, some teachers give out their cell phones but also have boundaries around that um as well. So that's my advice for, for all teachers actually. 00:23:07 Yeah, that's a really good advice. And I, I imagine like that, that just right, there is another challenge, right? That, that, that we need to overcome is like being able to set those boundaries adhere to those boundaries, right? Like even if you're up at 1 a.m. replying indicates that this is an OK thing to continue, right? So I, I know we've kind of discussed several challenges. Is there any other challenge or what would you say? Might be maybe the biggest challenge in getting to that place of partnership with families. Yeah. Um, you know, in, in the book I offer, um, Senate starters because sometimes when we're calling, um, and, and, you know, I'm, I'm one of those people too. I don't necessarily love phone calls. Right. I, I prefer to text because it's faster and it's simpler and, you know, the phone calls are important and I do sometimes still after this many years of teaching, get a little bit nervous when I have to call when something's not great news. And sometimes that's why we're calling and, and we're not gonna necessarily call. Um you know, you should though, you should call when it's good news, but we're most likely calling when it's not great news. 00:24:11 Um But I offer sent starters um and they are ways to start the conversation to get the conversation flowing to have that back and forth with the parents. Um One of one of them that I can offer right now is sometimes when I was an administrator, not everything was really clear as to what actually happened between two students. So, like, let's say there's a disagreement at lunch. Um No one really witnessed it. And um there's a lot of ambiguity and I think every administrator listening to this and even teacher listening to this has experienced ambiguity in student situations. So I will call and say uh you know, you know, hello, Doctor Smith I wanted to ask you if Amelia told you about what happened at lunch yesterday. Did she share with you what happened? And then you stop talking because I think it's really important as the teacher or administrator sometimes just shut up and listen. Um I know it sounds really direct but just be quiet and maybe, maybe the parent will say, yeah, Amelia came home and told me that her friend poured milk into her pinto beans or you know, yes, this has actually happened to me. 00:25:18 That's um I'm like, really, can you tell me more about that? And I get that, that phrase of, tell me more about that from uh Michael Bungay Stanier. He writes a book called the Coaching Habit. I highly recommend the coaching habit book. It's short, it's sweet. It's great for every profession, not just for teachers, everybody, but tell me more about that. Tell me more. And when you do that with a kid, when you do that with a colleague, you do that with structural coaching, you do that with a parent, then it opens up that communication. So I highly recommend the phrase. Tell me more about that. And then I can say, hm, you know, you've given me a lot of good information. I'm gonna make some other phone calls about what happened with the milk and the pinto beans. And um I will get back to you. I'll follow up with you because you're not committing yourself to anything, right? Um So I would say just keeping that, like you said earlier in the episode of that curiosity mindset of, you know, I really don't know what went on. And even if you do know what went on, you know, that this kid hit another kid, something like that, ask the kid, tell me what happened, tell me what's going on. 00:26:23 Um, ask the parent, you know, is something going on at home? Anything, anything you want to share to help us partner together? Um And it's just keeping that tone. Um and the center starters help if you're nervous with getting, getting going with those. I love the sentence starters. I think those will be really helpful because sometimes it's just the blank email template or the blank just mind as you pick up the phone and you're, I don't know where this is gonna go. Please let voicemail pick up, please let me pick up. Yes. And, and it's interesting, some of the things you're saying too, I think about restorative practices and restorative conferences. Like we would often think about using them with students. But I think there's also this idea when I was trained in restorative conversations. It was you also invite the student to bring an advocate whether that's a peer or an adult. And it, it almost just feels like not even like maybe pre previewing that conversation or preliminarily just reaching out, but it almost feels like the same kind of vibe of like we are engaging with families as an advocate of their child knowing they're going to be an advocate for their child, of course, and we have that sense of curiosity that's going to kind of have almost like an asynchronous restorative conversation with different groups of people. 00:27:34 I think it's really cool. I, I love that whole idea of bringing an advocate in and, and restorative consequences and all of that. Um And it's so important that we convey that message that we are on your child's side. Yes, your child has consequences because we are on their side, right? And that the the parents most likely 90% of the time will be on board with that. Um I can tell you an example. I was talking to a, a dad, his daughter cheated on a test and um she is not the 1st 7th grader I've ever known in my life to cheat, you know, news splash and the dad was, it was his oldest child and he was just worried beyond belief about. Is, is this a red flag? Should we be worried about her? Is she a bad kid? I mean, all these things that the a parent rightly so will go through the emotions. And part of my job as an administrator is to say through my experience, no, this is not a red flag. She did something that she knew it wasn't right. She's going to have consequences. We're going to help her learn from this. But please don't worry as a parent. Right. Um, and that is our job, like we're gonna work together and we're gonna get her through this and, you know, seventh graders do odd things sometimes and it's, it's normal, developmentally normal. 00:28:44 So I love the reassurance in that. I just think as, you know, as a parent, that's exactly how I would want someone to respond to something that my child did. Right. And so I think having previously taught without that parent hat on, I, I think sometimes that's hard to get to. But if you could just kind of train your mind to be like, if I were a parent, if I'm not, you know, like, what would you want or even just you personally doing something we've all messed up, right? And I mess up regularly in front of students. So it's like, you know, how do we want people to treat us and give us the benefit of the doubt? Um That's, oh, beautiful. So I think we've talked about a ton of different things that people can do. I'm wondering especially if there's either someone new to either teaching or maybe new to an administrator role, like helping to facilitate those conversations and partnerships with families. What is the starting point? Like, what would you encourage listeners to do once they end the episode as like kind of a first go at this and building that foundation? Well, I I have two answers to that. Uh One I worked with the administrator who he led a PD. 00:29:45 This was years ago, he led a PD session where he had us write down on a piece of paper, something that we did that was really dumb in seventh grade or eighth grade. And of course he was not going to collect these, these were all confidential. But man, I had a list of things that I had done and it really reset all of it, whether we're parents or not, it reset our mind shift of like, yeah, we are gonna do some really dumb stuff and their prefrontal cortex is not developed. So of course, they're gonna make odd choices. Um And so it gives us an empathy, not that we're excusing the behavior or not giving consequences, but we have an empathy toward, you know, why when we ask 1/7 grader, I, I pick on seventh graders but it's mostly middle schoolers. But why did you throw that across the room? And they say, I don't know if they truly don't know, they truly don't. So it it that exercise, I would say administrators do that don't collect the data, let them throw it away, but just have them just reflect on something dumb you did when you were a teenager or a Tween. Um And then the, the other part for, for taking away for, for teachers is, you know, be more mindful about when is this an email? 00:30:54 And when is this a phone call and try your best to make a little bit more phone calls this school year, not every single one has to be because that's, that's overwhelming. But try your best to just lean into that a little bit more this school year. Um, and then also, um, do your best to try to send a happy note, um, to every single child in your, to the family of every single child in your classroom. Um I have, you know, have a roster and I make a little tick mark. Every time I send a happy note, it will make your day better. It makes the family stay better and encourages the child. Um because we tend to call or email about problems or superstar Children. But remember the Children who are in the middle of all of that, um who their families may not hear from you very much. So, really make an effort towards that. Those are my two pieces of advice. Oh, that's so good. And it, it makes me think about one thing that I used to use, not quite sentence starters but just kind of a vocabulary bank. Almost. Um positive psychologist came up with the values in action website. 00:31:55 And so there's like, I don't know, 27 character traits or values or whatever. And so I would just put those up in posters and then I would literally look and be like, OK, I have to think of something for the student like, oh definitely that character strength they demonstrated this week and this is how it like helps you fill in the gaps again. If you have that mind is blanking moment as you're trying to write. Um So yeah, having that list. Yes, I will. I can link it in the show notes that I was, I would, that would be so helpful. Yes. Awesome. So this next question is something that I have been asking and it has been a joy to hear people's answer. So totally for fun can be related to what you do for work but also can be very not related. So what is something that you have been learning about lately? Something I've been learning about lately is probably what a lot of educators are learning about is chat GP T and um I always say it wrong. That's why I say it slow. I have a teenage daughter who corrects me every time I say it wrong. Um So I, I'm trying to learn about that because it's a tool that we have to accept us here. Um And I use the word tool because it is very helpful. 00:32:59 Um I think we all have used it to help just craft some kind of writing of some kind but helping students see how it's a tool and not a replacement for your actual intellectual work. Um So I've been trying to read a lot about A I and what we can do to assess students true intellectual work rather than what they're generating with a prompt. I maybe I'm scratching the surface on what I know about it. Um But I'm trying to wrap my head around it the best I can. That's really cool. And I have been thinking about this too from the standpoint of assessment. It's just like, how do we assess? Right? Like maybe we change how we assess. So instead of responding to a prompt with an answer, I want you to create something like I want you to create a model of something, some concept or whatever, right? And so I think the possibilities are endless. And I think interestingly, I've never thought about this until our conversation. But maybe families also play a role in helping one to understand the context of like, what do I look for when I'm home and my student is completing their homework or doing this essay or whatever? But also like, what creative ways could we assess your child? 00:34:05 Because I think that would be really neat for them to weigh in on the skill set that child has or how they make sense of things at home, right? And then bring that into class. So, oh, that just makes me think of a million ideas. That would be a great like parent survey question. Yeah. To, to ask like, what do you want me to know about your child? And do you have ideas for how, how they can shine and, and show me what they know? Yeah. Oh, that's good. I hope listeners write that one down. That was good. And then finally, because so where can listeners learn more about you connect with you online? Get your book. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. Um So I have a website. It's uh Crystal frommer.com and my last name is Fromme RT. I'm also on Twitter at Mrs Frommer. Uh It's Mrs underscore Frommer and then you can also find me on linkedin. Um Those are the, the pages that I'm most frequently on. Um So yeah, reach out and look at the book, look at some of my portfolio I've written for Edutopia, things like that. So I'd love to have a conversation. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is a fun episode. Super fun. Thank you. If you like this episode, I bet you'll be just as jazz as I am about my coaching program for increasing student led discussions in your school, Shane, Sapir and Jamila Dugan talk about a pedagogy of student voice in their book Street Data. 00:35:20 They say students should be talking for 75% of class time. Do students in your school talk for 75% of each class period? I would love for you to walk into any classroom in your community and see this in action. If you're smiling to yourself as you listen right now, grab 20 minutes on my calendar. It's a brainstorm how I can help you make this big dream a reality. I'll help you build a comprehensive plan from full day trainings and discussion protocols like circle and Socratic seminar to follow classroom visits where I can plan witness and debrief discussion based lessons with your teachers. Sign up for a nerdy no strings attached to brainstorm. Call at Lindsay, Beth clients.com/contact. Until next time, leaders think big act brave and be your best self. This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better Podcast network. Better today, better tomorrow and the podcast to get you there, explore more podcasts at teach better.com/podcasts and we'll see you at the next episode.
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In this podcast episode, Dr. Judy Krause explores the principles and implementation of anti-bias education. She discusses the four core goals of anti-bias education, how Pacific Oaks classrooms handle bullying and racism, and the importance of empowering students to be active participants in their learning. She also discusses the support structures that enable teachers to do this work well such as regular team meetings and PLC time and the director's open door policy, which foster collaboration and help address challenges encountered in implementing anti-bias education.
Dr. Judy Krause serves as Associate Dean and Program Director for the Doctor of Education in ECE program in the School of Human Development & Education at Pacific Oaks College. Her research focuses on developmentally and culturally appropriate pedagogy. In this episode, Judy tells us about Pacific Oaks' four core goals and how they tackle challenging subjects like bullying and racism in age-appropriate ways. The Big Dream Judy's dream is to carry on the legacy of the "PO giants" who founded Pacific Oaks 80 years ago, using their values of social justice, inclusivity, diversity, and respect. This involves instilling an understanding of “what's right and fair” in children and young adults and fostering a safe and inclusive learning environment through collaboration and support among educators. Alignment to the 4 Stages: Mindset, Pedagogy, Assessment, and Content The four goals of anti-bias education are identity, diversity, recognizing what's right and fair, and advocating for what's right and fair. These goals are integrated into every aspect of Pacific Oaks' curriculum and instruction, ensuring that students develop a strong sense of self, an appreciation for the diversity of others, and the ability to stand up for justice and fairness. This could look like: Students “talking about something maybe that they saw in the news. Kids see a lot and hear a lot that we don't realize that they're hearing.” “If a child is seeing another child being bullied, being able to stand up for that child that's being bullied. It could be something as simple as that.” Mindset Shifts Required To successfully implement anti-bias education, educators must first have a genuine desire to promote inclusivity, diversity, and respect. This mindset shift can be achieved by seeking out education and resources, such as Pacific Oaks' anti-bias symposiums, which provide valuable insights and inspiration for creating a more just and inclusive learning environment. Challenges One potential challenge is resistance from teachers, parents, or community members who may not share the same commitment to social justice and inclusivity. In these cases, Pacific Oaks stands firm in the values of anti-bias education and continues to provide support and resources for those who are interested in making meaningful changes. Judy shared, “Whenever you're going to do change, it has to come from within. So if you have a teacher who really doesn't believe in inclusivity and diversity and respect or social justice, if that's something that they don't really believe within and that doesn't resound in them, you're not going to get a mindset change.” Action Steps What might it look like to bring the four listed goals to life in your school or district? Step 1: Start with small, manageable changes, such as incorporating more diverse books and materials into the classroom or discussing current events in age-appropriate ways. Start with the first two goals (identity and diversity) and then move to the third and fourth (recognizing what's right and fair, and advocating for what's right and fair). Step 2: Foster collaboration and support among educators by creating opportunities for regular discussions, feedback, and problem-solving related to anti-bias education. At Pacific Oaks, teachers have weekly team meetings on Fridays and also monthly Curriculum Depth Study Group meetings. Step 3: Engage parents and families in the conversation through town hall meetings, book clubs, and other educational events focused on social justice and inclusivity. One Step to Get Started To begin incorporating anti-bias education into your classroom or school, start by exploring resources like Pacific Oaks' anti-bias symposiums, the Social Justice Books website, and articles on anti-bias education. These resources can help you gain a deeper understanding of the principles and practices of anti-bias education and inspire you to take small but significant steps towards creating a more just and inclusive learning environment. Stay Connected You can find Dr. Krause on LinkedIn. You can learn more about the Pacific Oaks school on their website. Additional Links: The Invisible Classroom: Relationships, Neuroscience & Mindfulness in School by Kirke Olsen Pacific Oaks’ Anti-Bias Resource Page (not mentioned in the episode, but hosted by PO’s library) To help you implement the ideas we talked about today, Judy is sharing all of the past Pacific Oaks Anti-Bias Education Symposium videos with you for free! And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 141 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript here. Quotes:
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In this podcast episode, Miriam Plotinsky discusses the essence of leadership in education. including the importance of humility and openness to change, and how to create effective teacher coaching programs that focus on simplicity and collaborative communication. She also discusses shared leadership and overcoming resistance, highlighting the importance of teacher and student voices in decision-making processes and providing strategies to navigate any resistance that may arise.
Miriam Plotinsky is an author and instructional specialist who addresses challenges in both teaching and leading across schools with a wide range of differentiated needs. A strong advocate for student-centered learning, she provides coaching and professional development for teachers and administrators. In this episode, we talk about curriculum, professional development, teacher coaching programs, and the importance of humility in leadership. The Big Dream Having a clear vision of where we're going—what we are teaching and why—and to communicate it effectively to students. Alignment to the 4 Stages: Mindset, Pedagogy, Assessment, and Content Mindset is like an umbrella, overarching all other aspects of teaching. Mariam stresses the importance of building a growth mindset, being open to different perspectives, and being willing to admit when we are wrong as leaders. Pedagogy, assessment, and content, she says, fall into place when teachers have a clear understanding of what and why they are teaching. Mindset Shifts Required Clarifying what and why you’re teaching prevents a lot of “classroom management” problems. Mariam says, “New teachers will say ‘I'm so worried about classroom management.’ But they don't mean that. They mean ‘I'm worried, I won't be able to control my class.’ And so one thing I've been trying to make a connection between is if your instruction is where it should be, you won't have as much to worry about.” Action Steps What can leaders do? Step 1: Start with identifying (and helping teachers to identify) what we are teaching and why. This clarity helps align all other aspects of the teaching process. Step 2: Implement effective teacher coaching programs. Harness the human resources within the building, let each teacher be a leader, and set up structures where they can help each other. Step 3: Adopt shared leadership. This involves including teacher and student voices in decision-making processes and avoiding the pitfall of surrounding ourselves with “Yes” people. Challenges? One of the hardest things is giving people the help they actually want. Mariam suggests getting “feedback on feedback.” One Step to Get Started Decide on your one thing, and stay focused on it. Stay Connected You can find Mariam on Twitter: @MirPloMCPS, Facebook: Miriam Plotinsky (author page), or her website. To help you get even deeper into the concepts Mariam discussed in this episode, she’s sharing this link to her articles published in Edutopia. And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 140 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below. Quotes:
TRANSCRIPT Today in the podcast, we have Miriam Platins. She's an author and instructional specialist who addresses challenges in both teaching and leading across schools with a wide range of differentiated needs. A strong advocate for student centered learning. She provides coaching and professional development for teachers and administrators. She has written, teach more however less how to stop micromanaging your secondary classroom lead like a teacher, how to elevate expertise in your school and the forthcoming writing their future selves, instructional strategies to affirm student identity. Her writing is also widely represented across a broad range of education publications and she is a frequent guest on education podcast internationally. Ploys is a national board certified teacher with additional certification in administration and supervision. Let's get to the episode. I'm educational justice coach Lindsay Lyons. And here on the time for teacher podcast, we learn how to inspire educational innovation for racial and gender justice design curricula grounded in student voice and build capacity for shared leadership. I'm a former teacher leader turned instructional coach. I'm striving to live a life full of learning, running, baking, traveling and parenting because we can be rockstar educators and be full human beings if You're a principal, assistant superintendent, curriculum director, instructional coach or teacher who enjoys nering out about co-creator curriculum of students. 00:01:13 I made this show for you. Here we go. Maryam Ploys. Welcome to the Time for Teachers Podcast. Hi. It's so nice to be here. I'm so glad you're here and I'm excited to talk today with you about many things including your book that is coming out. I'm very excited about it. So, what should people know as we kind of enter the conversation? Is there anything people should keep in mind? I always like to say that, you know, whenever we are coming at something as experts or we think we know something that doesn't mean that we have all the answers or that we, whatever we're saying is unqualified or absolute. Like every time I come at something, it's like, OK, I there are a bunch of exceptions. I am happy to be proven wrong, like always just coming at it from a place of humility because I feel like whenever we have these conversations about leadership, it's easy to say, do something, not as easy to actually do it because it gets really complex. You know, that is so good. I really appreciate that grounding and just like every topic that we talk about humility is important. 00:02:18 And so I was listening to, to other voices and not thinking that you have all the answers, right? I recently said in um to my partner in a conversation like I reserved the right to be wrong. Like I would, I would like to reserve the right to change my mind in the future. I love being wrong because, and, and especially in a classroom setting, what I say is that mistakes are what lead to learning. So we embrace mistakes. We make a safe space for mistakes and that way people think. Oh, I, I understand now why it's not right. And that's a much deeper level of understanding. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's a great connection to the classroom. So as we think about usually one of the first questions they ask is about freedom dreaming. And so as we think about Doctor Batina loves words in regard to that dreams grounded in the critique of injustice, which is just love. What is your big dream for curriculum? Instruction, all the things. So this is, this is gonna be maybe a little bit probably just from a, from a personal perspective at this point. Like I, I have seen um what happens a lot when kids don't understand what they are supposed to do um in a class, there's just, and, and the way that I love how we put it is there's a target that they can't see. 00:03:26 And so, you know, the class is a puzzle uh to be figured out or a game to play. And, and so my dream for curriculum and instruction is that we just really know where we're going and we make that really clear from the beginning. And I think it's for, for teachers and leaders because for teachers, sure we need to backward map, we need to know our course outcomes. You know, think of the evidence that's gonna prove that and then, and then plan instruction. But then for leaders too, it's like, don't pick the next new thing every year that you think is gonna save your school. Pick one thing that you know, is gonna be happening over the trajectory of, of maybe 3 to 5 years, if not more and focus on that. So I guess it's just like have that, whether it's a core standard, whether it's a, it's, it's a different kind of goal but know where you're headed and make that clear to everybody and be super transparent because otherwise it's, it just, it devolves so quickly and I, I don't know if you have one particular goal that you guys are currently working on or that you're you're thinking about. But for me, I, what I've resonated when I read your book, particularly the chapter on instructional coaching is like, maybe coaching can be it, right? Like I, I love the idea of coaching as the centerpiece, right? 00:04:29 Which you talk about it. So I think that idea of coaching as a thing that we're always doing, not necessarily tied to a specific content piece or whatever, right? Like that feels to me like a a safe bet like you could bet on coaching and it will always be relevant. I don't know what your thoughts are on that, but it's a great place to start. You know, one of the things that I really stand behind is that coaching, we have this mentality and I talk about this a lot in the book that would have to be coming from a leader. So, you know, you've got to where you are because you somehow have knowledge and expertise that the teachers who are working with you don't. And sometimes that's true. But from an instructional perspective, sometimes it's not. So one thing that I typically recommend is that with coaching, you use the resources that are in your building, the human resources and those are the teachers and set up a different kind of coaching structure where they're helping each other. And I'm not saying that leaders shouldn't coach or that they don't have expertise in instruction. But I think we look at it all wrong like we can't necessarily coach unless we achieve some sort of elevated position. And that's, that's not really accurate the way that teaching works because we know and again, not always a good thing, the most common form of professional development is the person next door or the person that you talk to like that teacher friend. 00:05:40 And so what if we could find a way to harness that and also make it a little bit more? Um I don't want to use the term quality control. But like, that's not always a good thing. So figuring out what people are, are teaching and like taking really well known best practices and knowing your building and knowing your teacher. So you can elevate what people are doing really well. I love that. I think about success shares, right? Is like what is going well, like let each teacher be a leader and successful and share that and to be able to, right, you have to know your building to be able to elevate that. So that is brilliant advice. Love it. And yeah, so one of the things that I I think about or I guess four things that I think about is when we we are leading particularly departments or teams of teachers or you know, whatever it is, there's often like four pieces that I usually find leaders to be juggling and that's kind of the mindset piece, the pedagogy piece, the the assessment piece and the what am I literally teaching content piece? And I think all four are important, but I have always been playing with like what is important to know about these or is there a particular order that they go in? 00:06:45 And I just love to get your thoughts on like, are there some that you gravitate to more or first or how do the how do these play into your coaching and, and leadership? So the thing about mindset, which is really kind of like an umbrella over which everything happens. And this is how I felt when I was in school leadership that unless I looked for the mindset, like when I was hiring, for example, you can, it's skill versus will, right? So like you can build skills, you can build capacity, you can build the things you're talking about, like pedagogy and, and and and methodology and all that. It's a lot harder to change someone's mindset about what students can and should do. So for me, like, that's always been like the core piece of, of any kind of um awareness that we have with the people that we work with. Which is what, what do you really believe? Where, where are you coming at this from? Uh what are your philosophies? And also are you open, are you open to seeing things a different way? Because sometimes we are and sometimes we're not. So that has a huge amount of impact on what kids ultimately wind up doing in a building and also how we move the needle um from a leadership perspective because also like, it's not just teacher uh mindset that it's leader mindset. 00:07:53 No, you sometimes walk into the spaces where leaders are like my teachers won't do this, my teachers won't do that. It's like, well, if you've already given up, then I don't know how I can help you here. You have to decide they might do something. The question is how, yeah, that makes so much sense and you just naming it that way and framing it that way. I can see the echoes of teachers talking about students in that same way, like, very much that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like that ultimate like growth versus fixed mindset. If you ultimately believe that somebody can't do something, you're, you're not really giving them the opportunity and you're not seeing it as a, as a growth process or as a yet, which is the language of growth mindset. You're really seeing it more as it's a, you know, foregone conclusion and, and you know what they say about self fulfilling prophecies. So, yes, absolutely. And so, so are there other pieces? I, I love that the mindset is kind of the priority and, and to hire for mindset too? I, I that's a really interesting point, right? Like I wanna hire for the whale and the movie piece of the scale and, and I'm wondering about like cato assessment content. Are there, are there things that you have found in like these other three kind of areas that supports or, or that teachers have found a lot of um needing support in a particular piece of that or finding that there is one of those areas that just like you can kind of coach on and, and teachers run with it a lot faster and make a lot more progress on or anything like that. 00:09:10 So I think that we do a lot of teachers, a disservice when we teach about the curriculum. If we do teach about the curriculum, you know, a lot of people start teaching and they see curriculum as like a product. So I'm gonna read this and it's gonna be a series of things that I do. It's a lot, followed by a lot like a task after task, after task. That's not what a curriculum should be. It's content. It's not how we do it. And it's not like a prefab thing. So if you want to have like even the boxed curriculum, there's room for creativity and innovation and providing student choice and, and the method behind it. So, you know, and the other thing about curriculum is that it's not just getting through something, it's about making sure that kids have the depth and, and understand the reason behind it and that you as a teacher are really hitting the, the right points in a very intentional way like you're teaching for specific things. So, uh there could be a lot more teacher training around that. I don't think there is a whole lot again. It's like you go into a school building. Like I remember this was 23 years ago, but I was given a binder like here go teach your class. And it's like, ok, so who am I gonna get help from? 00:10:11 I'm gonna get help from the person I talked to at lunch. I'm gonna get help from you know a person I share my classroom with and that's not always the best way that you can do it. So one thing you can really do is to change how teachers plan and, and the thing about also teaching, like where is the priority when teachers know what to teach and how to teach it? The other pieces start to fall into place because their assessments are going to be more aligned. Uh classroom management is gonna click because kids will know why they're there and what they're doing it for and the instruction will make a lot more sense. So it's not like necessarily one thing. So I always like to say, let's start with what we're teaching and why we're doing it and framing it and then work outward from there. Hm. I really like that framing and sometimes we'll, we'll see a lot of like starting with the, the pedagogy and kind of working its way up content. But if we know what we're teaching and why we're teaching, we're clear and that you're absolutely right. Then we are especially for selecting like high quality, like texts and histories that we're teaching, right, as students and, and so they can all see themselves in right where they have the windows and the mirrors, all that we reduce classroom management problems. Like it's just like what happens. 00:11:14 So that's what happens. Exactly. There's structure, there's intention. Um I'm writing up another book right now and, and I just wrote a chapter about classroom management. And at first I was like, oh, and I do this whole section on discipline versus management because discipline is a piece of management. But it's not really the thing because, you know, new teachers they think, oh, I'm so scared, they'll say I'm so worried about classroom management but they don't mean that, they mean, I'm worried I won't be able to control my class. And so one thing I've been trying to make a connection between is if your instruction is where it should be, you won't have as much to worry about. I'm not saying that kids are never gonna make your life hard, they will. Um but it'll be a little bit better. Yeah. So, so I am curious you have so much to offer in, in this book lead like a teacher, the, the one that we talk about today um and feel free to pull from any, any other. I know you've written so many. And so I'm thinking about um this idea of one instructional coaching as like kind of AAA thing that we can like house a lot of professional development in. And then also thinking about, well, actually, let's start one at a time. 00:12:17 I'm wondering if you would like to share a little bit about, you know, why coaching structures are necessary and urgent. And I love that you use the word urgent in your book. I think they are absolutely urgent and So I'm thinking like if we could talk through maybe the why of coaching um and then maybe some structures or some things that you think would be helpful for leaders to consider as they're kind of maybe they don't have a coaching program or maybe it's like, really not in place to, to the full degree, like what they could do to build that up. So the why really comes down to how do you wanna use your energy every year? We have a huge teacher attrition problem. Um, teachers are leaving in record numbers and a lot of the time. What? And, and I've, I've also been in this place as a leader where you think, oh, this person's not performing well, let's just if they leave, they leave whatever, we'll get a new teacher. But are you thinking about how much more training, how much more time hiring all that, that you're gonna have to do to replace this person? And does it take more time and energy to really work with the person that you have or to scrap it and start all over again? 00:13:19 I mean, we are hired to help people get better and most teachers, I, I say this all the time. They don't, they don't enter the profession to s to be bad. They don't enter to be mediocre. They're, they're there because they want to be and they want to help kids. So why, why can't we do our jobs in that case and help them because most of the time they do want to be helped. So in terms of what you can do, like it, it depends on your resources, but you can develop an in-house coaching program. There are so many teachers and again, this is like, I'm not saying we should take advantage of this fact, but so many people who are willing to give up their time, which they already don't have and give more of their bandwidth, which they already don't have to help support one another and they're doing it informally anyway. So is there a way that you can provide little things like you might have um like a new teacher, like a special group like that meets a week once a month and you have people who are assigned like teachers who have been there for a while to come in and help and you can set up coaching that way or you could, when you get new department members, you could like do buddy systems or you can even do across the building. 00:14:22 So someone, you know, someone needs help with something that's more not content based. There are all sorts of things you can do and you could really make sure that they are happening. I think what happens is over the summer, we have all these grand plans. We're like, oh, we're gonna do this and this and this and you have too many things. So you lose track. Of all of those things, like typically by October or November, they're gone. So instead have just doing one thing. And I think I talk about that. Um, maybe chapter five, I'm trying to remember which chapter it is where I'm like, just pick a thing because we all have a wish list of things that we want to do. But if we don't focus, we won't get any of them done. I love the idea of focus and, and I also really like how you, you have a lot of really helpful, I think figures in, in the book as well. And I'm thinking about the figures in that chapter, thinking about the kind of like a three column goals, things to try and then evidence of progress. Like I just love the simplicity of how you can coach with something like a three column table or something. I don't know if you want to like, talk us through that. If it's, if it's too complex, it won't work. 00:15:24 I mean, so this is kind of like a thing that I do. Most of my books are structured very much the same way where I have like scenarios that exemplify something and then you have the something that it's exemplifying or like a similar process. So I always thought, and you know, a lot of my life has been, my leadership life has been professional development. So if you don't give people something they can use, that's practical, right? Away, you've lost them. And so similarly, as a writer, I want you to be able to page through the book, whatever the book is, find something and use it right away. Um And so likewise, you know, with the instructional coaching, it's like, not just what are we gonna do but how are we gonna know that it worked or that it didn't work? And then what are we gonna do about it? Because that's the piece that gets dropped? You know, you meet with, I, I think I talk about this, the coach's log. It's such a horrible thing. You meet with somebody and, and they are telling you about their class and you're writing down what they're saying and it goes into some void of, of log, a log hole somewhere and no one ever sees it again. Doesn't do anything. But what if you as a coach are in that classroom? What if you are doing things that are a lot more hands on and that you see it and then the day a person tries something that you recommended you're there. 00:16:28 And what if you have a supportive leadership that says, well, if you're teaching this period, we're gonna get you covered so that you can go and see this for 10 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever it is. But people have to work together to make this happen. They have to work together to make it a priority. Yeah. Are there anything any like structures or ways of doing this, that you've seen be successful in terms of like, I'm just thinking about people who maybe don't have any of this in place right now. And they're like, I don't even know what that would look like to be able to find coverage for something or to have them be in this consistent coaching relationship with their fellow teachers in, in a more normalized, you know, title or something. So a few years ago, I did an article for Utopia and I think it's, it's cited a couple times in this book because what I was doing was talking to principals who had decided to become teachers again and not to leave principal ships, but they would teach while they were being principals. And in fact, the four words written by by Damon Monteleone who did that as a high school principal, which scheduling wise could be a real nightmare, but not only did his interview resonate with me, but um there was another uh elementary school teacher who said that she taught for two hours every morning in order to make this happen, she had to mobilize a whole backup team and it included, and I thought this was so brilliant teachers who were studying to be administrators. 00:17:42 So there were certain things they couldn't do, like they couldn't do a lot of the confidentiality stuff and they couldn't handle a lot of the legal stuff, but there were things and she had it all mapped out and again, the priority was I'm going to teach. And so she made everything work in a way that served everybody. And then when her teachers were ready to take that next step, they had a lot more hands on experience than most administrator interns do. So it's just about thinking, how are you gonna make this happen? And, and again, just picking the thing. So the thing is I'm gonna teach them, that's how she did it. If it's I'm gonna coach or I'm gonna set up coaching, you're gonna make that your priority, but you're not gonna keep piling on different things. And the thing that's, that's tempting is I think a lot of leaders do this too. Well, I can pile on five things because I've got five different leaders in this building who can do these five different things and they'll make a committee and they'll make a committee and they'll make a committee. Hi, it's Lindsay here to tell you about today's episode. Freebie Miriam has written extensively as you can tell, we've had a lot of conversations about her books, but she's also written shorter form articles on a utopia for a link to those. Go ahead to Lindsay, Beth lines dot com slash blog slash 140. 00:18:47 Now, back to the show again, the oversight falls apart so fast because you can't keep track of that many things and you can't do them well, I mean, I'm not saying no one ever has. I'm making generalizations here. But if you really want to pick that thing, all you need to do is, is have that have that really. I, I like to think of like the horse blinders like you're not seeing now again, don't ignore the fires. There are other fires like Children fighting and so that stuff has to be dealt with. Yeah, that makes, that makes sense. And so I, I love the idea of focusing and I, I love the just concept of instructional coaching as a, as a, I think, like an in house, like you don't need to go find someone else to do the thing, right? Like you have the resources. It's just about thinking about what those structures are for yourself or allocating, maybe reallocating time or funding or something like that, which feels like a little bit less of a, a jump, I think and, and honestly, like, in some ways, II I almost like threatened to make myself extinct when I say something like that because part of my job is to go in from the outside and to help people do things. 00:19:52 On the other hand, what I really think of it more as is trying to uncover what's already there as opposed to me coming in, storming the castle, changing a bunch of stuff and leaving. Nobody likes that. Yeah. And to that point, I think the idea of it's just the general coming in and serving a castle and leaving. I, I think sometimes uh maybe not the leaving part, but then sometimes like this is a switch in gears here. But the, the top down kind of leadership model of, I'm going to decide this summer. For example, like you're saying, we always have these plans. I'm going to decide what we're doing next year in my office in the summer when teachers are on break and by myself, I'm gonna determine this right. I I know you think a lot about like shared leadership and, and in these structures of shared leadership, I'm just wondering about, you know, what are the practices that a leader can have if they're thinking about increasing coaching or for example, like, how do we make those decisions in community or, you know, changing a policy? How do we make these decisions as like a shared leadership structure that enables us to get to the place where we're not just doing it in isolation in one leader in their office over the summer so that there's so many different ways to look at that. 00:21:01 But I think like the big thing is first of all, in the most functional school spaces I ever have have, have been privileged to, to observe or sit in there is a teacher at the table, you know, you don't have like the closed conference room where just like a few huddle leaders are figuring it out for, you know, a few 100 people or sometimes a few 1000 people, depending, you really are including teacher, voice and teacher perspective. That's so vital. And, and as a leader also, everyone can see when you've already decided what you're going to do and you're getting quote unquote feedback, but it's not real because the decision's been made. So if you are genuinely looking for the collaboration of others, then you need to not hire people who are just going to agree with you. So don't surround yourself with yes people you have to think about, you know, you have to be open to the idea that maybe what you think is the priority isn't, you have to get off your high horse a little bit. Um And, and really just open up the space to at least teachers and then perhaps also students when you get a little bit more further down the road, like a lot of, a lot of um educational institutions or school systems have student, you know, delegates or members of the board or there's a reason for that. 00:22:13 Um Not as often. Do you see a teacher delegate or a teacher member of the board? So that's interesting to note. Hm. That is fascinating. I never realized that that was the trends that there were more students than teachers and some of these. Well, and I think we think student voice is a good thing to have and I agree with that student voice is a great thing. To have, um, teacher voice is, is a little trickier because very often we hear from the people who are the most difficult, you know, it's like the people who are satisfied, say nothing or the people who are doing ok, say nothing. And then the people who are feeling a certain way will be very vocal. But then to me, even when people are being difficult, that's a level of engagement, they are trying to figure something out and be part of something. And if you work with it as opposed to against it, you stand to gain a lot more. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So I I'm wondering, there's a lot of kind of change in, in what we're talking about, right? If someone is listening and they, they don't do a lot of the things that we've been talking about but want to start or maybe they're not, not really excited to start because they're fearful of a challenge or a resistance to this change. 00:23:16 Is there a particular challenge that you've seen in doing the work that you do? And that maybe you've overcome and could kind of provide some wisdom to any listeners about like how to, how to address any resistance that comes up or challenge that comes up. I think the biggest challenge is always actually giving people the help they want. Um So that when we walk away, we know we did something good for them and the only way to really adjust for that is to get what I call feedback on feedback. Um which is you get feedback on, on what you did. First of all, you, you meet with them at a time, you never just go in blind, but provided that, you know, you give the training, you give the meeting, you give the support um what worked, what didn't and then when you go back because you do have to go back. You can't just, again, it's not like a one and done. It's like a consistent follow-through of helping someone you have to show, show, show. Like it's, it's, it's not just that I read your feedback, but this is what I changed or this is what I didn't, but here's why. So I couldn't do it because of, and here's, and so then you, you're coming to a, a mutual understanding of what's happening and you're really showing that you're listening and that feedback is going somewhere as opposed to just you continuing to stick to whatever your trajectory was because you've already planned it or you already had in mind. 00:24:32 So you have to have that flexibility and the mobility and also the openness to change and to listen to what people are telling you because if someone saying this has happened like awful, like mic drops in the worst way where someone's like, this didn't do anything for me. Nothing. OK? Well, then talk about what will like, what do you, what do you need because they'll figure it out. Yes. Wow, that's good. That is. I like that a lot feedback on feedback. Yeah. Excellent. And, you know, I do it with, um, adults. I teach both training but also teaching, like, I have a class that I teach a graduate class on how to be just more skillful in the classroom and every single class and I'm not saying that you should always do this but make it consistent. They fill out feedback at the end and then at the beginning of the next one, here's what you said. So you didn't enjoy being in groups so much. It was too many groups. You didn't move around enough. Um You felt this way. So here's what we're doing today to address that. Mhm. Yes, I love that. I, I'm always frustrated when we do surveys at the very end of a course, right? Or something. And then it's like, ok, well, now we don't use it. I love the idea of like, always having a slide in your slide deck or whatever you're using, right? 00:25:39 This is what you see. It's like that survey abyss that happens where you just took and, you know, you might have read it and it was kind of interesting and then you did nothing with it. Yep. Yeah. Like having I have for me having the placeholder in the slide deck for the next day or whatever it forces you to look at that again and then make decisions. Right. Yeah. So, as people are thinking about all these things that they could be doing, um, what is a good starting place for someone who has listened to this episode so far and is like, all right, I'm ready to do something. There seems like a lot of options. Where do I start? So, you know, you have to go through a process of figuring out what's most important to you and you have to be willing to really pair back. Um Less is more and, you know, it's more important to build really strong habits than it is to constantly pile enormous things on, on yourself and your teams that you can't achieve. So what I would say is, is figure out what that thing is. Um And there are tools in the book to help you do that. If you want to, again, you flip right to them, they're there or you can go through a self exploration, whatever works for you. But once you've figured out what that is, then you can start to make a plan. 00:26:43 Um But again, if you just are like, oh, there's too much, get out of that place is too much and, and really think about, ok, like of all the things that are in front of me, what's gonna move everything in a direction the most that I can get the most out of at this time and place, given the resources I have given the staff, I have given the, you know, facilities, everything. I love that. Figure it out. Figure out what's your thing, what's your thing? And as we kind of come to a close, this is just purely for fun. This is a question I enjoy asking everyone. Ok. What is something that you have been learning about lately? And this does not have to relate to her, although again. Oh, my goodness. What have I been learning about? Um, well, unfortunately I've been learning a lot about, well, I shouldn't say, unfortunately, in case you have fans in your audience, I have a 13 year old. I have three Children, but I, the middle one is 13. So I've been learning a lot about Taylor Swift. Um, and I, I Taylor Swift's been around for a long time. Like I remember my students being very into Taylor Swift and then I kind of felt like I was done with that. But, yeah, Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber. 00:27:45 Um, I'm learning a lot about all their, all their specialness and, you know, there's a documentary Miss Americana that I had to watch the other day. So I know all about what happened with Kanye and I knew that before but like, I know more. Um, that is hilarious. Thank you. I know. It's like, it's like a fluffy answer but it's the truth. Oh, I, the fluffy answers are the best answers. Thank you. It's being real. Yes. All right. Finally, where can people connect with, you, learn more about you get your books, all that stuff. Ok. So, um I am active on Twitter. So my um my at is um Mirror Pro MC PS. Um, and then I have a website which is my first and last name dot com. So Miriam PLO tinsy dot com. Um, I have, it's a total of four books. Two of them are out already. So teach moreover, less is out and lead like a teacher is out in November. I am writing their future selves coming out and those three are with Norton and then I'm in the middle of working on my fourth one with a S CD. That is incredible. The fact that you crank out that many books is just amazing. There's like this great four in the morning thing that goes on every, everybody and the dog are all still sleeping. 00:28:55 So productivity, you know, find what works for you. I love learning what works for people. Thank you for sharing that, Miriam. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. It has been a pleasure the same Lindsay. Thank you so much. If you like this episode, I bet you'll be just as jazz as I am about my coaching program for increasing student led discussions in your school, Shane, Sapir and Jamila Dugan talk about a pedagogy of student voice in their book Street Data. They say students should be talking for 75% of class time. Do students in your school talk for 75% of each class period? I would love for you to walk into any classroom in your community and see this in action. If you're smiling yourself as you listen right now, grab 20 minutes on my calendar to brainstorm. How I can help you make this big dream a reality. I'll help you build a comprehensive plan from full day trainings and discussion protocols like circle and Socratic seminar to follow up classroom visits where I can plan witness and debrief discussion based lessons with your teachers. Sign up for a nerdy no strings attached to brainstorm call at Lindsay beth lions dot com slash contact. Until next time, leaders think Big Act brave and be your best self. This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better Podcast Network better today, better tomorrow and the podcast to get you there, explore more podcasts at teach better dot com slash podcasts and we'll see you at the next episode.
If you enjoyed this episode, check out my YouTube channel where I show you a sample unit arc on the topic of safety and freedom:
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AuthorLindsay Lyons (she/her) is an educational justice coach who works with teachers and school leaders to inspire educational innovation for racial and gender justice, design curricula grounded in student voice, and build capacity for shared leadership. Lindsay taught in NYC public schools, holds a PhD in Leadership and Change, and is the founder of the educational blog and podcast, Time for Teachership. Archives
November 2024
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