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In this episode, Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey joins Lindsay Lyons to discuss the P.O.W.E.R. framework, a guiding tool for implementing justice-centered curriculum in social studies education. The conversation dives deep into this framework's essential components: Presence and Personhood, Oppression and Opposition, Wisdom and Wit, Entanglements and Empowerment, and Relevance and Responsibility.
Dr. Erker Caffrey uses this framework to provide guidance around initiating justice-oriented curricula. Because it’s such a big and complex topic, it can feel overwhelming and many educators don’t know where to start. This framework helps bring some clarity and coherence to the conversation. The Big Dream Dr. Erker Caffrey envisions that every child experiences a dynamic and justice-centred education, especially across the social studies disciplines. This means that there needs to be a transformed educational landscape where every teacher feels equipped and confident to deliver this kind of curriculum in their contexts. Mindset Shifts Required There are some key mindset shifts required to embrace a justice-centered approach to curriculum design. Teachers are often overwhelmed and worry they don’t know enough in this area — this is a valid and common barrier to implementing justice-oriented curricula. One way to address this is to embrace a clear vision of their roles in achieving equity-oriented education. Teachers need a framework, a guiding tool, that is transferable across identities, topics, and disciplines. Action Steps The P.O.W.E.R. framework is something that helps educators decrease their overwhelm and move forward with confidence. It stands for:
The framework can be applied to a single lesson, longer curriculum, year-long strategy and other components of curricula. Here’s some tips to get started: Step 1: Analyze your current curriculum through a critical lens. Consider the presence of identity and humanity in your materials and the timing of introducing topics of oppression. Step 2: Ensure your curriculum balances stories of oppression with those of resistance. Incorporate narratives that highlight both adversity and counteractions. Step 3: Foster joy and creativity in learning by integrating diverse cultural expressions and forms of wisdom. Finally, encourage student-led inquiry that reflects on these complexities. Challenges? The biggest challenge educators face is not that they don’t want to implement justice-oriented curricula, but that they are overwhelmed or unsure on how to get started. This is where an impactful framework can really help. One Step to Get Started Dr. Caffrey suggests that educators begin by examining their own curriculum to identify whether it includes elements that affirm students' personhood before delving into oppressive narratives. Small shifts in the order of content and the inclusion of diverse perspectives can make a significant difference. Stay Connected You can learn more and stay connected with Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey in the following ways:
To help you implement today’s takeaways, our guest is sharing The P.O.W.E.R. Framework and the LETS ACT Framework with you for free. And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 268 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below. Quotes:
If you enjoyed this episode, check out my YouTube channel where you can learn about more tips and resources like this one below:
TRANSCRIPT
Lindsay Lyons: Dr. Genevieve Erker-Caffrey, welcome to the Time for Teachership podcast. Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Thank you so much for having me. I am very excited to be here. Lindsay Lyons: I also am super excited, and so I love that before we hit record you said that you are, like, a frameworks expert. I'm also, like, a nerd of frameworks, and so I'm really excited. You- historically, people should totally listen to, and I think we should link this in the, uh, show notes as well, um, your episode on Visions of Education around the Let's Act framework was brilliant, and I loved it. Um- Thank you ... and now today we're talking about the POWER framework, which is so, so cool, and so situated in my mind in the context of, like, student leadership and awesome curriculum design and doing school differently and transformatively. Like, this is really rich, and I'm excited to get into the conversation. I'd love to know if there are things that you want the audience to kind of be thinking about or have in their mind as we go through today. Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Sure, yeah. Well, I think that if teachers, coach- you know, I know that your audience is, um, varied, but I think the thing that I would try to think about is when you, when, when you are planning curriculum and trying to make it, quote unquote, equity-oriented or justice-oriented, um, you know, what exactly are you thinking about, and what are those components? And where do you feel like you do a really good job of which components do you feel like you do a really good job, um, and where do you feel like you get a little lost? Like, when, what exact topics or identity groups are you feeling like, "You know, I don't know how to make this equity-oriented." And I'm hoping that my, this conversation and the POWER framework can provide a little bit of guidance for specifying what it is we're actually talking about when we say justice-oriented curriculum, especially justice-oriented social studies curriculum, which is my area of expertise. Um, and then once we identify those components, what do those really, truly look like in curriculum and instruction? Um, because oftentimes it can just feel kind of elusive. Like, what are we talking about here? Like, okay, we're talking about diversity, we're talking about making the world a better place, we're talking about, you know. So I, it's something that I craved as a teacher, um, to help with that guidance. But, um, I'm hoping that the POWER framework provides a little bit more guidance, um, not to simplify the ideas, because it is complex. This is a complex endeavor. But to, um, to help provide a little bit of clarity and, and coherence so that we can dig deeper into complexity. Lindsay Lyons: I love that framing. Well, very well said. I wanna start, as I start all episodes, kind of with this idea of freedom dreaming. So Dr. Bettina Love describes these as dreams grounded in the critique of injustice. And so curious what your big dream is. Maybe this is a bit of kind of a, a why behind the framework. Maybe this is a bit of a, a lot of things, but curious what the dream is for you Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Well, my dream is that every single child experiences a phenomenal justice-centered dynamic, engaging social education, social studies education, or education in general, but specifically when talking about history and civics and geography and, and economics, and these concepts that are so, um, so consequential for the ways that we live our lives and the decisions that we make. Um, I hope, my, my dream is that every student receives that kind of, of education, because some have. You know, there are some phenomenal teachers and cur- some amazing curricula out there that we... that, that certain children are lucky enough to experience. Um, usually it's piecemeal. It depends on the teacher, it depends on the unit. They get, not a lot of kids get, get it K through 12. But my dream would be that every child gets it K through 12, which means every teacher would need to feel equipped, confident with, uh, with, with delivering that kind of, that kind of curriculum. And that is easier said than done. And something that I've found in my work is that I've, I've spent, a lot of my research has been with teachers who have a critical equity-oriented mindset or commitments, and they're... actually, even administrators are supportive. Even the districts that I've worked in are not restrictive. But still, there is this struggle to figure it out, and I've kind of realized that a lot of the problems are organizational. Um, they are, there's a big fragmentation of the infrastructure, the curricular infrastructure of specifically elementary social studies education. There's so much great stuff out there, but it's all over the place, and it's a mess, and it's fr- it's fragmented, and that is dizzying for teachers. Um, and then there are so many frameworks, justice-oriented frameworks that are fantastic, phenomenal, and needed, but teachers get overwhelmed by them. So my dream is now, like now on a more practical level for myself, is to provide, um, both services that can guide districts, schools, um, or publishing companies, teams of educators of any kind, to finding the, or to, I, I would like to train these teachers, these educators in understanding, um, the overarching arc of what it means to do social studies education in a justice-oriented way, and then equip them with the, not just the resources, but the, the theories and the thinking tools, um, and then eventually the students having those thinking tools that, so that they are able to think with theory. I think a lot of times, you know, we think, "Oh, teachers just want the stuff," and they do, and we should give them the stuff. And th- that is another dream of mine to- my dream is to have my own publishing company where I'm really creating this coherent curriculum f- that, or c- taking curriculum and making it more coherent in a justice-oriented way. But, um, also tra- uh, always training teachers on what it means to think with critical theory. And I think people think that that's should be saved for the curriculum writers, the researchers, the scholars, but I think not only teachers can think with critical theory, but so can students. But w- we just have to try. We have to do it. We have to um, it's, it is again, it's easier said than done. Lindsay Lyons: I love all of those dreams. Those are great. I also recognize that you and your research and experience have worked with so many educators, and I, I'm curious about kind of the mindset shift of, I, whether it's going from, like, overwhelmed to, like, clear on how exactly to design curriculum that is justice-centered in social studies, or if it's, "I'm not sure about this," or if it's the kind of leader mindset shift around, like, how do we structurally support- Yeah this work? Like, what's a key mindset shift you've noticed in, in actually bringing to life some justice-centered curriculum in social studies? Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Fantastic question, because you are right. There are numerous barriers to, um, to doing this comprehensively, to doing justice-oriented social studies curriculum. To do it sustainably c- uh, there, the, the barriers are plenty. Teachers are worried about, "Do I know enough?" I- they don't feel like their social studies curriculum was good enough, so they feel like, they often say, "How do I teach what I don't know? I know I need to teach counter-narratives, but how do I do that?" Um, and the, uh, the barriers of, yes, then of course there are many restrictive con- restrictive contexts, especially in our sociopolitical current state, that, um, people are really scared to even say the word equity or justice in some spaces. Um, then there's the organizational fragmentation. You know, okay, so I could go on and on about all... It- I just wanna validate that those are real challenges, and it's, I don't want teachers to feel like, "I'm not doing this, so there's must be a problem with me," or, "I'm not committed enough," or, you know, I, I don't actually think that this is a, um, teacher commitment issue. It's a, um, I mean, it can be in some, but most teachers really do want their students to make, to, to, they want to provide a, a responsible, engaging, and comprehensive multiple perspectives type of, of social studies curriculum, but they just are, like, really scattered on how to do it. Um, so a mindset shift in term- in terms of, um, well, with the teachers that I worked with- They had this commitment to justice and equity and, um, and diversity and inclusion and everything. But what they were saying was they needed, they, they... When they expressed their scatteredness, their, their insecurities, their challenges, and then I said, "Okay, what would it take? What would it take to make you feel confident?" Um, and they, these were teachers, this was like a small team of teachers who were, um, writing, they were preparing to write, re- overhaul the elementary social studies curriculum in their, in their district, and they felt ill-equipped in the beginning. Um, they felt like, you know, emotionally ready and... Except, but they just felt ill-equipped on a more practical level. So, um, you know, I said, "What, what would, what would it take?" And they kind of identified four things. That's, they identified four things that it would take to, like, get them to actually put it into action. They needed a framework. They needed a guiding tool, some kind of guiding tool, uh, that, number one, was actually guided, which was actually grounded in critical theory, that was truly equity-oriented, and not really, 'cause there's a lot... Like, like, again, like what does that mean? Um, number two, it had to be transferable across identities, topics, and disciplines. So even though they, I was, had, I had previously been introducing a lot of identity-specific frameworks for, like, how to teach Black history, how to teach indigenous history, how to teach, um, like, uh, something specific within civics or geography. You know, they, they were like, "These are all great, but, like, our standards and our resources, they don't just teach everything in isolation with these topics or identities." I mean, some standards literally say, "What is the, you know, what was the interaction between this group, this group, and this group?" You know? So you can't just... So there were a lot of questions like, "Does this Black history framework transfer to the Asian American history?" You know, like, it's, like, it was, um... So they n- they, uh, desired some sort of, um, overarching framework that was iden- was transferable across identities. Um, number two, uh, number three was, um, they wanted it to be sequence sensitive. They felt as if a lot of, um, I don't know, uh, leaders and administrators would kind of, like, um, like, kind of put down their desire for s- scopes and sequences, um, for be- 'cause it sounded like when they were saying, "We want a scope and sequence," I think they thought the administrators were hearing, "We want scripts. We just wanna be told what to do." But they were like, "No, it's not that we just wanna be told what to do, but we also- What we are doing here with history education is filled with trauma and depressing topics and, um, very, the, the topics that could traumatize students in our classroom. If we don't do this right, if we don't think about the order in which we are discussing these topics, we could cause a lot of trauma. So, we don't need a step-by-step checklist, we don't need scripted curriculum, but we do want this framework, this guiding framework, to be sensitive to sequencing and help us understand what comes first generally, what comes second, what comes third, what is important, um, when discussing especially really hard histories, um, or, or really any histories. Um, and then fourth, the fourth thing that they said this, this guiding framework would need was it would need to be emotionally balanced. So often they felt as if their social studies curriculum was either really depressing, so if they were talking about something depressing, they felt like bad that they could be causing some trauma for kids in the room. It was just, you know, that's not a good feeling to, you know. But they also felt like as soon as they got out of the more, quote-unquote, again, depressing or the oppression stuff, they felt as if they were maybe like whitewashing things. Like, they c- they, they couldn't-- They felt like they know joy is important, so they would go into the joy stuff. But then as soon as they were in the joy stuff, they felt like, "Oh, no, we're like, uh, are we- am I becoming one of those teachers that doesn't like, you know, really confront and interrogate the oppression involved here? Like, is this too joyous?" So, they just felt back and forth like they couldn't find. So, they said, "We would really appreciate some emotional balance across this guiding framework." Um, so yeah. So, those are the four things that I set out to, um, to accompli- to, to, to, to implement into this guiding framework. And, you know, fast-forward a year later or say months and months later, we, uh, together with the teachers, but me going back and forth between scholarship and working im- implementing the POWER framework with the teachers, um, we came up with, with, with the POWER framework. It, um, stands for different words. Um, but each, in each letter, each word, each word started with a different word at the beginning of the year with me implementing it with the teachers, and then over the course of a year, it sort of evolved, and some of the words changed. Um, because sometimes when you plan s- when you plan a framework with just scholarship, it doesn't necessarily work exactly As, as you would think it would when you put it into implementation, or the way teachers interpret different critical concepts might be different when you actually... So the words matter. The words matter a lot, and they shifted over time, but I- we ended up coming up with the, um, five dimensions that we felt, um, pretty good about in terms of this sequence sensitive, transferable, emotionally balanced, critically grounded framework. Lindsay Lyons: Oh my gosh, okay. I'm really excited to dive into this. Quickly- Okay ... I just wanna say, I think for anyone who feels like they're not quite at the space where your educators were, the ones you were working with who were thinking all these great thoughts- Yeah ... that is such a beautiful cue to be like, "Here are the important considerations." Like, all of these things you listed, right? The fact that it should be grounded in critical theory. It should be, like, kind of content agnostic, and, like, a f- the vertical alignment possibilities there is really cool. Uh, like, it, it should sequence to decrease traumatic impact, right? And it should be em- emotionally balanced with oppression and joy, and, and considering the whole spectrum of, of human emotion. Like, I just- Yeah ... it's so good. Like, just, just that. Thank you. That's amazing. I- So I would love to, to actually get into the POWER framework, if you wanna just take us there- Yeah ... and tell us- I Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: would love to ... Lindsay Lyons: what it's part... Okay, great. Go for it. Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Okay. So the POWER framework, um, stands for... The P stands for presence and personhood, the O stands for oppression and opposition, the W stands for wisdom and wit, the E stands for entanglements and empowerment, and the R stands for relevance and responsibility. And one of the most common questions I get is, like, "Okay, does this framework, does this guide, like, one unit, one lesson, one, like, the whole entire year?" And the answer is yes, yes, yes, it can do any of those things. Um, the way that I tend to use it is I take, you know, any piece of curriculum, whether it is year-long overview or a one children's book or one unit. I am just sort of searching for those pieces. These, so, you know, there are five dimensions, but then two components within each dimension kind of that are intricately cannot be separated sort of. Um, and so I am, yeah, looking for those pieces. And, and the way that I use it is not, like, to, um, necessarily, again, script something, but to search for what's missing. And then say, "Oh, well, okay, you know, you have r- r- you're really strong with these components, but then one component, you know, let's say wisdom and wit, we're missing, so let's what, what can we add in there?" Um, but not every single lesson or every single unit- Can cover all five. Some do. Some, um, you know, some children's books can cover all five. Some children's books are really heavy on the P or the O or the R. Okay, so let's get into what these all mean. Okay, so the, the, the P, um, presence and personhood. Presence and personhood dimension acknowledges the presence and explores the personhood of students and those in the curriculum with dignified asset-oriented origin stories. So one of the most common pitfalls, especially in elementary social studies education, is the first time that children see Black and brown people in the official curriculum is through slavery, is they are in slave- they are in chains. We know through research, we know through all of the experience, we know that this is a bad, this is a traumatic thing for students. It's also just providing a very inaccurate, uh, picture of history, of human history, that as if, like, this is where Black history began. So, um, one of the most important things to do is, um, to, uh, the P is... I almost made the P just the word positive, but that doesn't really work. But it's we have to affirm humanity, identity, culture, lived experience, joy, genius before harm and oppression. We need to center, um, the voices of marginalized people the way that they want to be introduced. Um, stories of, um- It, we, we want, we, you know, we want the curriculum to not begin with harm or deficiency, disruption, um, but we want to affirm that communities have always existed, created, and sustained life beyond domination, and that children enter classrooms as full people already possessing dignity, complexity, agency. Um, so it's about really grounding all of our curriculum in humanity before critique. And it's hard, especially for really justice-oriented teachers. They have actually a really hard time getting away from the oppression stuff. Yeah, I, I can't tell you how many times where I'm like, "This book is great. It's beautiful. But look, there are like three pages all about oppression, and this is the first week of school, like, or the third week of school." Like, it's too early. It's, it, it's, it's... You know, so let's, let's, let's read this book, or even just read part of the book. Read the parts that you want. But, um, we really need to make sure that it doesn't seep in. And I think that's really... So presence of person, what I'm really talking about is identity, you know? Identity exploration. And oftentimes we think, oh, identity exploration, we, espe- uh, justice centr- justice-centered educators want to get into intersectional identity. And by definition, intersectionality is really about intersection with oppression. And so we have to put on some brakes, and we have to really, um, think deeper about, um- What can, how can we s- how can we get into students' identities and the identities of people that we're going to see in the curriculum without bringing oppression in, in, um, in an explicit way? So examples of that are, like, you know, for little guys K through 2, um, like, um, identity poems, um, sharing, um, like, their name stories, um, maybe, um, mapping important places in students' lives. Um, and you know, like, if they go deep, they're gonna go deep, that's fine. But we don't need to push that. Like, "Tell me about your racial history," like, right away, you know, right in the beginning of the school year. Um, yeah, so but just, like, celebrate, you know, the showing, making su- bringing families into the classroom, talking about their language, their culture. Um, and yeah, there's a lot of ways to explore the students' his- identities without centering oppression. And then with spec- since I brought up the example of slavery, you know, really starting with ancient Afri- starting before enslavement happened. And there are some phenomenal story, books out there, um, that... There's one set, one author, um, her work can be found on, um, ourancestries.com and they're these beautiful children's books that tell stories about ancient, um, ancient African leaders, mostly, um, kings and queens, but also just, um, different leaders. But they, they're told, uh, the stories are told about when they're, when they're little children, and so, um, and they're just experiencing life. It's just a, it's a story about, that any kid could relate to. Um, like, "My dad wouldn't let me do this, and so I did that." And, and so- And then, so a lot of the cur- units that I wrote with teachers to start out, um, was with these kinds of books, and it was cool because the students could see their own identities in the stories, but and then all of a sudden they're like, "Oh my gosh, like my identity has something to do with ancient history?" Like, like this is... Yeah, so it, um, I really like those, those stories. But there's obviously a lot of ways to, um, explore official historical or social studies education without oppression first. But that's... Do you have any questions about the presence and personhood, um, Lindsay Lyons: dimension? No questions. Okay. Just like- Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Let's- Lindsay Lyons: like incredible awe and like gratitude- ... I guess for you- Aw ... taking all of this theory and, and, and recognizing what happens in practice often as like something that shouldn't happen in practice, and we know we wanna do differently, and here's how to do it, and here's concrete examples. It's just- Yeah amazing. Thank you. Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: That is one of the things in critical theory, and that's how I came up with this framework, was I studied all of the critical theories and synthesized them, coded them, and like hundreds and hundreds of them, of components within all these critical theories and, um, and synthesized them into these, you know, five themes. Theme, um, but I do- didn't find a lot of like components of critical theories that said, "Don't start with oppression." You know, they, that, that's a, a pedagogical thing that I had to bring in. Um, they just, there isn't a lot of order that is attended to, so, um, thank you for, for recognizing that. We, it's, yeah, it's, um, again, like just n- sometimes it's assumed, I think, but also sometimes I think, um, it's just not where the scholars' brains are. That's just not... Yeah. Um, okay, so you ready for the O? Lindsay Lyons: Yes, let's do Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: it. Okay. So the O, uh, stands for oppression and opposition. Originally, I had O standing for just oppression, and then the W was like, um, willpower or something that meant like resistance. And then I realized over time that in practice- If you're, it- when teachers started thinking, "Okay, I have to read this book up and just center on oppression," that's when we got into that really icky place where we're trying to separate emotion, and it's really impossible. Like, because there has never been oppression without resistance, and so we need to really teach those together. Um, there are, like the Teaching Hard History standards say that, you know, very explicitly. Um, but the theories about teaching about oppr- about oppression itself and interrogating power don't talk about that importance of teaching oppression and resistance together. So it was really about, you know, bringing the theory and the curricular pedagogical work together. So that's why oppression and opposition, they... So we examine systems of oppression and resistance together. It means investigating how oppression operates through institutions, policies, ideologies, cultural norms, and at the same time, centering resistance, refusal, critique, counter-narratives alongside that harm, and reiterating over and over that oppression has never gone unchallenged. Um, I think that, uh, yeah, I think it's easy to just get stuck into one or the other, but w- the reality is, is that they're intertwined. Um, but, and then I have a lot of things that I could say that I talk about when doing workshops with teachers about, you know, age-appropriateness with the oppression pieces especially. Um, but I think, I think what I've found is teachers feel a little bit more comfortable doing the oppression part knowing that the opposition is right there with them, and, like, th- then it doesn't feel as, like when, when, if you're just expected to just teach this, like to really let's, let's, let's examine this, you know, white dominance, um, or the, you know, it's like very sticky. But if you're talking about it as resist- with resistance, it's okay. But also, we don't wanna just talk about resistance We need to also examine the oppressors. So it's a balance, um, definitely. Do you have any specific questions about that? I, I, I mean, there's a lot of examples of what you can do. You know, with the little guys starting out, you can talk about, like, you can ask them about rules and if they think that there are any unfair rules, and, um, notice whose voices are included or excluded in stories. And, um, you know, they do understand. They can understand bias and stereotypes and those kinds of things. Um, and then, like, um, you know, for older students, older elementary students, you can really get a little deeper into analyzing unfair laws or just policies over time and, um, and how schools have... Uh, I, I often talk about it within the context of schools because it's so, you know, uh, familiar to them. But, um, yeah, like how language, EDL, uh, lang- lang- certain languages were excluded and then how they have been welcomed. And, you know, there's a lot of different ways and a lot of, lot of different books. I have lots of book lists of, like- Books that, um, can teach about oppression within these different identity groups. Um, I have books for every dimension of the power framework at different grade levels, in other words. But, um, but yes, so, um, oppression, opposition is, I think most people know that if you're gonna talk, do justice-oriented curriculum, you can't, like it cannot exist without discussing oppression. And, um, that's, that, that is not discussing oppression, that would be turning a major blind eye to reality and history and yes. Lindsay Lyons: Yeah. Thank you for elaborating the age appropriateness. I feel like I get that question a lot from educators. Mm-hmm. And I have also seen, I think in some of your resources on your site, just the acknowledgement that like, yes, we can talk about oppression when kids are young, it just might look different. And so- Oh, yeah ... I love that you just named for us some clear examples. So I think that will alleviate some of the questions the audience might be having. So I really- Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Yes, yes, yes ... value that I have so many things I'd love to share. I love starting-- I have some preventive da- like some, the, the biggest fear a lot of teachers have is that, um, well, one of the biggest fears when they're concerned about the students in the room. I mean, yes, there's the fear of backlash and la-la. But the teachers who, you know, really most teachers have a big heart, and they just wanna take care of their students. And they might have, in, in least the, the context that I've worked in, there's usually like the, there's a majority of white students in the room, and then there are a handful, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven teacher, s- students who are Black or brown or come from some kind of marginalized, historically marginalized community. And teachers are so terrified that the first, that, that they will say something about the oppressive history, and all the students in the room will, their heads will turn and look at that one to four students. And they'll say things like, "So wait a minute, then, like so and so wouldn't be able to go to school with us?" You know, say these off- these things that are just really, um- Hard to respond to and could be traumatizing and stuff. So, um, I, I, I want to validate that concern and be thankful that people are concerned thinking about those, those students. That is who we should be thinking about. But, um, I do have a lot of ideas and ways, strategies on how to prevent that from happening. Um, specifically practicing it with dolls, but, but about... So, so bringing in a doll that maybe if, if you... that has an identity from a historically marginalized group, but that isn't in the room. So like maybe, um, a doll, if you don't have any children with hijabs or Mu- Muslim, then you bring in a doll with a hijab. Or you bring in a doll with, that, if you don't have any students who have Down syndrome, then you bring in a doll with Down syndrome. And then you say, like, and then you practice, like, "Okay, we're gonna about to read this book about this. How might we treat this doll, like this, if this was a student in the room?" And, um, that's just one little idea. I could talk about the age appropriateness thing for a very long time. So I don't wanna get too sidetracked. But I mean, it makes sense that it comes up in the oppression dimension of the power framework, 'cause that is, that's the hardest and Lindsay Lyons: Absolutely. I also wanna recognize your time. Do you have time- Yeah ... to continue? We can make this- I do ... into a two-part episode if you want. Okay. Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Absolutely, yes. No, I, I have plenty of time. Lindsay Lyons: Okay, perfect. Let's do that, and then let's aim for, like, uh, 1:45 at the latest. Does that work? Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: I... Yes, yes. At the very latest, yes. I do have to... I have a train to catch at 3:15, um- Ooh, yeah, okay I'm going to Kansas City, but I'm- it's fine. I just, uh... Yes, 1... Maybe 1:30? I don't know. Yeah. Lindsay Lyons: Let's do it. Okay. Dr. Genevieve Erker Caffrey: Okay, yes. I'll write it down. No, but I'm thrilled that you want to hear all of this. That's very Lindsay Lyons: exciting. I do. I- it's amazing. Thank you.
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AuthorLindsay Lyons is an educational justice coach who helps schools and districts co-create feminist, antiracist civics-based curricula, discussion opportunities, and equitable policies that challenge, affirm, and inspire all students. A former NYC public school teacher, she holds a PhD in Leadership and Change, and is the founder of the blog and podcast, Time for Teachership. Lindsay believes all students deserve literacy, criticality, and leadership skills. Archives
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