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In this episode, we talk with Molly Arbuthnott, an educator-turned-writer who is now the author of 18 picture books for children. Her stories all have animal characters and often dive into real-life themes that champion the underdog and help build up self-confidence and self-belief.
As a champion of children’s literacy, she shares her insights into the transformational power of picture books for children and adults alike. Molly advocates for a shift in perspective regarding how these books are perceived and utilized in education and at home. The Big Dream Molly's big dream is that of self-belief, in line with the theme of the “underdog” in many of her own books. She also wants to redefine picture books as a resource not just for children, but as literature that holds value for all ages. She aims to transform picture books from entry-level reading material into versatile and profound stories that resonate universally. Mindset Shifts Required To fully appreciate the value of picture books, Molly suggests breaking away from the idea that they’re only a starting point for young readers. Instead, picture books have rich narratives that offer opportunities for all readers to explore complex themes. It's about understanding the depth possible in art and story, encouraging all participants to view picture books as tools for lifelong learning and conversation. Action Steps Picture books can be a powerful tool for learning and growth in both the home and school settings. Molly recommends these steps to start using picture books to their full potential. Step 1: Don’t “dumb it down.” Molly’s own books feature deep themes like death, and she believes it’s a disservice to our children to gloss over things they will have to experience at some stage in life. Instead, the picture book format makes it possible to engage in these important topics in an age-appropriate way. Don’t shut down questions, but engage in those conversations. Step 2: Introduce picture books in varied settings beyond primary education, such as in literature circles in higher grades or within family reading time. Increased exposure to picture books helps people of all ages engage in and learn from them. Step 2: Encourage children to interpret picture books independently and express their unique perspectives through discussions. It’s also important to allow children to pick their own books and make choices around what they want to read and learn. Step 3: Allow picture books to lead to broader conversations about real-world concepts, current events, and personal growth, exploring topics that matter to children and their communities. This can be particularly helpful when engaging in high-emotion topics around identity. Picture books, like those that use animals as main characters, can help us engage in topics without attributing identity markers Step 4: Keep it fun! Picture books are full of joy, and stories bring the imagination alive. Lean into this. Challenges? A significant challenge lies in balancing adult-driven book markets with fostering children's preferences and choices in reading materials. Ensuring that children are actively involved in selecting what they read and discussing it can counteract this imbalance and empower young minds. One Step to Get Started Begin by selecting a picture book that resonates with a current topic or theme your children are encountering. Use this book as a springboard to facilitate discussions and relate the narrative to personal experiences or broader societal issues, thereby making reading a more interactive endeavor. Stay Connected You can find out more from Molly and her books over on her website and Instagram. To help you implement today’s takeaways, our guest is sharing their course Animal Story Kit with you for free. And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 261 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below. Quotes:
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TRANSCRIPT
Lindsay Lyons: Molly, welcome to the Time for Teacher Shift podcast. Hi, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, I'm excited you're here. I am really excited, particularly as this is airing in a kind of miniseries directed towards both teachers and families, thinking about families supporting kids as they read, whether they're reading picture books, whether they're, um, you know, chapter books. Whatever they're reading, I'm really excited about your background as an educator and involvement with books specifically. Um, that's kind of what is on my mind as we enter this conversation. Is there anything on your mind as we enter the conversation that you want people to be aware of, kind of as we continue? Um, not off the top of my head. I'm just really happy to be here chatting about the joy of picture books. Awesome. All right. Well, so I think my first question is the first question I have for every guest, which is really in line with freedom dreaming, which Dr. Bettina Love describes as dreams grounded in the critique of injustice. What is that dream that you hold, whether it be for education, for kids' reading lives, for picture books broadly? Like, what's that dream for you? Um, the dream, I guess, well, all of my books are kind Molly Arbuthnott: of about the underdog who kind of comes out on top, so I guess it's the dream of, of self-belief, the American dream. And also, um, that a, the dream of, of a picture book being not just a children's book, but a book for, that anyone, um, reading it can get something out of. I think it's really important for adults to start embracing more picture books. Lindsay Lyons: I love that, and I can say actually just yesterday, colleagues of mine, all educators, are, were in this group chat around picture books, and like we're reading it for ourselves, not even for the kids. Molly Arbuthnott: Oh, amazing. Well, it's great. I mean, it's not... I, I think it's really the fault of the way we... This is going off piece a bit, but it's the fault of, well, not the fault, but it's the way that we teach reading, where the picture book's kind of the bottom rung of the ladder. And, and you then, you start with the picture book, and then you progress onto the chapter book or the bigger book. But really, the picture book should be top of the ladder because it is the one that most people can get something out of Lindsay Lyons: I, I love that. And as a former high school teacher who used picture books in our class- Yeah ... I can say the kids are really into it, too. Molly Arbuthnott: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They, well, it, it uses a particular part of the brain, and it's a really easy way for particularly with parents having less time in, in modern life to read with their kids or having other priorities, it's a really easy way to engage with a child, um, just by looking at, uh, because it's kind of, it gives the kid kind of, it's a two-way interreaction rather than it just being from one person. So it's a really fun bonding experience beyond just being a story. Lindsay Lyons: Yeah, I love that. Okay, so you've already kind of shared a bunch of mindsets or mindset shifts for- ... people. I think that's brilliant. Are there any other things that people should be aware of or have a sp- particular mindset around as they, particularly families I'm thinking of, that are reading with their kids as they encounter this situation where, where they're opening a picture book together. Is there a particular thing they should have in mind as they read? Molly Arbuthnott: To not dumb it down. So I very much have, uh, death, uh, in my books. I've got all sorts of concepts that are quite, uh, deep. Um, and I think that it's a great disservice to a kid if we kind of gloss over things that they potentially or definitely will experience at some stage in life. I mean, it's, it's in an animal form, all my books, so it's kind of a degree of separation. It's not as in your face as it would be otherwise. But I think they're still really important topics, and to not, if the kid raises it, to not just brush it, brush over it, but to actually take the time to answer their questions and, and sort of give them a sense of understanding, because then they'll be much more confident in it as a subject if they kind of know. Lindsay Lyons: Oh, I love that. And so is there a particular either scene or storyline from one of your books that you wanna give us an example of? Like, here's something that happens in the book, here's how a child might respond, here's how you as a family member m- might respond or engage in that conversation. Molly Arbuthnott: Sure. Well, I mean, there are two quite deep stories off the top of my head, I'd say. I, I've written, for anyone, uh, sort of zoning into my books for the first time, there are 18 different picture books, um, about different animals. They all deal with different concepts, different stories, different locations, different adventures. But, um, the one that springs to mind, Angus the Robin, is about a, um, there's a house and there's an accident essentially that happens. And suddenly, I don't, I don't, uh- Expressly say what's there, but I say that there are blue flashing lights, and then it's up to the reader to interpret that as they choose. Um, but then so that kind of leaves it fairly open to chat and discussion about what the blue flashing lights could be, where they could be going, why, what they could be taking, and that kind of thing. And then in, um, in Athena the Cheetah, there is actually a physical death. The- or two brothers, one of them, um... I, I lived in Kenya for a while, so that's what inspired that story. One of them, um, one of the boys gets his foot, um, uh, there's a, there's a crocodile in the river, and the crocodile gets one of the brothers. So again, obviously chances are most readers will not be beside crocodile-infested lakes when they're reading the story. So it's not a literal kind of discussion, but it's a discussion about importance of, of staying together and what happens if someone you really care about has an accident. And accidents do happen all the time, um, and so you can maybe sort of switch it into being an accident that they might relate to or understand and how you can deal with it and, and understand. In the story, I'm not gonna give the story away completely, but the boy who's left, he goes, uh, mute. And so then as well that could lead to the discussion with parents as to why he doesn't talk because, I mean, the kids might come acro- there are, uh, pe- kids who you find don't talk for whatever reason, and so then that can lead into discussion about that and why they might not be talking and what you can do to help and what they might be feeling inside and all that kind of thing. Lindsay Lyons: Thank you for sharing those examples. And just I, I love the broadening of how, yes, we read this thing, but then what does that mean f- for these other maybe related concepts or related- Mm ... applications in your life. I think that's a really nice takeaway for families and teachers to be able to facilitate conversation and sense-making. I, I know also that you are really interested, I think you use the phrase children as gatekeepers. And, and so can you talk about, a little bit about how, like, we as adults can support children in, in making choices around books or, or what that kind of means for you in, in that phrase you use? Molly Arbuthnott: Yeah, well, I, I... it's a really important, um, concept for me because very often as a writer of, I mean, inevitably as a writer of children's books you are kind of having to appeal to two markets because it's the kids who will be reading it, but it's the parents who will be buying it. So it's quite a tricky kind of balance. But it really essentially is you have to be gearing it at what the kids- need, and, and, and they're the ones kind of driving the, um, driving the decisions. It was really because I've started applying for competitions for my books a bit more, uh, constructively this year. It's something that I've never done before, and I kind of was figuring that, well, great, but again, it's the adults kind of driving the demand and driving the books that you see on the shelves, and driving what comes out on top, and driving what wins. And all of these algorithms and things are generated by the people who work rather than by the kids themselves, and how you can shift that. I'm going off to Bologna Book Fair next week, and again, that's a fair for kids books, but it's, it's very much the adults who are there. And so as a kid, I, I mean, you have very, they have very little power inevitably of what they pick and choose to do with their lives. But how to address that kind of power and balance, and to give the kids a bit more say over what it is that they want to read and they want to find out and they want to learn. Because even in a curriculum in school, I mean, you're very much told what to do and think. I mean, up until about six or seven, and then it kind of, there's that shift of when you're supposed to be educated. And I think in some ways it kind of de-educates, because you kind of lose your independence of thought in some ways. Anyway, sorry, I feel I'm segueing a bit. But- I mean, Lindsay Lyons: that's very connected to all the things we talk about on this podcast, so you're in good company. Molly Arbuthnott: Um, but I think it's, I, I, I don't know what the answer is personally, but I feel that there needs to be a way that kids can articulate what it is they want to know. But then in some ways as well, they're figuring out the world, and so they maybe don't know. I mean, it's, in some ways it's a responsibility as a adult who kind of knows a bit more to, um, to articulate what it is you think they want to hear. I mean, an example at the moment from, for me, from my perspective, is I'm having to write, well, I'm, I've been asked to write a story about two guinea pigs, Mocha and Latte, who are in this school, Greenside Primary School, and I'm having to sort of direct it from the guinea pigs' perspective. Um, and try and kind of articulate how, I mean through a guinea pig, how a child would kind of see the world- And I mean, y- uh, you're much more... I think children are very much better at kind of living in the present than an adult, because as an adult, you kind of, not intentionally and not always, but you kind of put all these different layers on top of who you are, just in the nature of how your life kind of, how s- well, not always, but how sometimes your life pans out, that you have layers of parents getting older, layers of properties, layers of travel, layers of work, layers of relationships, layers of... You get all these, um, many, many more layers, and that kind of can, um, it can just cover up kind of your, uh... And, uh, a way to sort of be more in the present and actively appreciating what's around you, because you're covered up with all these layers all the time. So to kind of get into the child's mindset, you have to be very, you have to sort of take all those layers away and be very much aware of your surroundings, aware of what you hear, aware of what you see, and aware of how you interpret it. Because, um, that's the nice thing about books as well, that no one can say what you're seeing or thinking or feeling is right or wrong, because it's just your interpretation, and your interpretation could be the same as the person next to you or it could be completely different. That's kind of the joy of being a independent human being. And so, and so I guess, y- as a writer, you can never satisfy everybody, because everybody's views and opinions are different. But you can make it try to have resonance with as many different people as you can Lindsay Lyons: I love that too from the perspective of e- either a teacher or a family member who is working with kids and, and reading and having that experience of engaging in a picture book with kids, that there is no wrong answer. I think a lot of times in schools, right, it's right or wrong. It's like it's- Mm-hmm ... two and two is four. That is ... Anything else is incorrect. Like, there is a little bit of shyness or fear from students sometimes in speaking up and sharing what their thoughts are because they are fearful that they will be wrong, right? And so I love this idea of art, m- even more broadly beyond picture books, but picture books as a specific representation of art being one of interpretation and one of connection. And I, I also am very much thinking about, like, civics and, and civic conversations, uh, are- Mm-hmm ... I think particularly challenging in the States right now and thinking about how this is a beautiful, um, less emotionally charged perhaps example of how we can talk across different interpretations of a situation i- around picture books and, like, what a great practice opportunity to have different kids read the same book and have a different experience with it and be able to share that. Molly Arbuthnott: Exactly. Yeah, it's kind of a safe space for, um, articulating and, and learning actually to have your own opinion, which is really important and, and that it's all right to think something different from the person Lindsay Lyons: next to you. I'm also envisioning, you know, in high school we do a lot of, like, literature circles around a theme, but it sounds like maybe teachers could also use because you have such a wide range of books, right, that are maybe on particular topics, it might be, okay, we're gonna think about this topic of accidents, for example as you mentioned earlier, and invite students to choose maybe one book that speaks to them and, like, read and engage in, in that book and then be able to have conversations with kids who read different books. Do you think that w- would- Molly Arbuthnott: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, uh, that's as well the joy of, um, of, of ... Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you can take a broad subject generally in schools I would say anyway, that's kind of how the curriculum's sort of centered around a broad subject, and then you find books that kind of relate to that in different ways. Um, and even ... I mean, it doesn't i- for, for, um, discussions like that it doesn't necessarily need to be just picture books. I mean, there are wonderful picture books that relate to all sorts of different subjects, but you can get a bit out of, out of a chapter book too. I mean, I feel like the whole, I mean, the whole thing is really to encourage- Uh, creativity and, uh, encourage imagination. And so any way that, that can do that is really good. I mean, my books, I tend to ... They're not super woke. They're kind of sticking to traditional values, which ... Just because that's kind of how I am. And, and for me, I kind of had to write about things I know rather than trying to make it something you don't know, 'cause I feel like you fall short in, in that respect. Lindsay Lyons: Certainly there are a lot of school districts who have, like in the United States anyways, like very much, like legal pressures for different things they can and can't talk about. So I think that will be appreciated there. And I think there's also so much connection to, like you said, in, in the broadening span, like people can have an entry point into whatever current event might be happening or whatever is happening identity-wise with them or their, their friends, um, to be able to enter into conversations and expand them beyond the book as well. Molly Arbuthnott: Yeah. Well, I mean, the nice thing as well, though, about an animal is that it's not irrespective of, of your, your stance on, on, on sort of who you are as a person. It, again, is a space where you can be anything because it's why I choose animals, because they're not high-bound by the rules and regulations that you are as an adult or as, as a person of having to sort of go to get up, go to work, go to school, come have lunch, go home. It gives you a lot more creative freedom, and with that it means that then you can have the freedom of interpretation. But going back to the themes you were saying, one of them is, um, I deal with climate change with David the Pizzly Bear, and that's about this bear who gets lost or goes out on an adventure and gets lost in, um, a, an ice field. And then, and then the ice melts and then he, they have to swim back home in order to get home. So that can open up about ... It's based on David Attenborough. Um, so again, that can lead to interpretation of him. And then also that, um, uh, ice fields, why they're melting and, and what we can do to help and to, to sort of stop the, um, climate crisis. But again, it has a happy ending, so it's kind of not all ... It's showing that even though things might be going wrong in the world, you, you kind of work around it and you just make it a new concept of it. And then actually also Conrad the Spider, that's a guitar-playing spider, and that, um, he loses his legs. He uses his legs as his guitar strings, then he loses his guitar and so he loses his legs. And it's about how you can go from great fame and fortune to being very poor and how people- the community around you kind of react and interpret that because, um, inevitably you, I mean, you're in- you're always kind of influenced a little bit by what people think and feel, and how you can And so then you can build resilience kind of up against that. And also they end up in a crisp packet, um, with a ladybird because obviously a spider's much smaller than a human, so that becomes their home. And then that can lead into concepts that, well, you can, um, just have an adventure kind of with a crisp packet or in your wall, in your garden behind your house. You don't need to, um, that especially when you're a kid or even when you're an adult as well, you can still have adventures without needing to travel to the other side of the world. I mean, it's all kind of in your mindset. So every day can be an adventure if you want it to be. It doesn't sort of have to be this great going on holiday that's the release. You can just make that be part of your day-to-day life. It's just a kind of different interpretation. Lindsay Lyons: Yeah, like the expansiveness of how differently you could interpret that. Like, my brain immediately was going to, you know, uh, the crazing of, crisis of people being unhoused and like you know, like, well, you, you know, you could look up all of that research as well. So I think, you know, whatever your kid or kids, if you're in a class, right, are interested in, I think there's a lot of, like, follow-up research you could do to your point about the climate change and, like, who is this particular person that it's based off of? But also what are the, what's the information right now, and, like, how do we look at graphs over time? Like, there's so many jumping o- it's like a jumping off point into so many different areas, which is really cool. Oh, thanks. Well, Molly Arbuthnott: yeah, I hope so. I mean, I can't say I'm a massive environmental ... Well, I, I don't, in that respect, I don't preach what I teach, in that I do still travel. I have to travel quite a lot for work. Um, and so I do take planes, I do take, I do drive, I do do things that probably aren't so good for the environment. But then I balance it out in other ways. I mean, no one, we do still have to, have to live. Lindsay Lyons: Yeah, great points. Um- Any- anything else you would like to tell, uh, families, educators? Any, um, advice that you have for engaging students and letting students lead the picture book conversations before we move to our final closing questions? Molly Arbuthnott: Um, just to keep it fun. Um, I find particularly with my work, I've always promised myself that if I ever stop enjoying what I'm doing, I'll change something. Um, for me, I spend- Most of my time, uh, doing my books, doing my work. And so it's really important for me that I really enjoy what I do, and I feel very lucky that I've been able to find that because a lot of people, um, a lot of people don't. And, uh, so I try and put joy into the books, so I'm hoping that the joy radiates out of the books. And then make it fun when you're sharing it. So I've got loads of costumes, I've got loads of resources that if anyone wants, I can very happily share, that bring each of the stories alive. And I love coming and reading the books and, and to kind of just let your imagination go. So, um, anything, anything can really happen because they're pretend animals, pretend places. Try and as well kind of think what the... When you're reading it, think from, try and kind of transform yourself into the animal that you're supposed to be being, and then it will give a lot more authentic, um, interpretation. That's Lindsay Lyons: great. Thank you for that advice. I'm, I'm imagining that, you know, someone is, is preparing to read perhaps for bedtime a story after listening and engaging with this episode, uh, and they're, they're ready for that now. Oh, good. Is there, uh- Thanks. Something that you have been... This is a fun question we like to ask all of our guests 'cause they're all lifelong learners. Something you have been learning about lately, either related to your work or just completely different. Ah, gosh, that's quite a good question. Um, well, this Molly Arbuthnott: school that I'm doing the guinea pig story about was designed by Goldfinger, like, you know, James Bond Goldfinger. So I've been researching, um, Goldfinger a fair bit recently. Um, and also I'm teaching, I'm learning the ukulele so that I can, um, play it when I'm doing, uh, story events. So I've been, uh, learning a bit of music as well. Lindsay Lyons: Wow, that is so- ... fun. I love it. And so you mentioned you have things, resources in addition to your books. You have all of your books. Where can people go to get that information, to connect with you online? Is there a place they Molly Arbuthnott: can- Well, I've got my website Um, and you can send a message through that. I have all the books available through my website. I don't think I have the resources. I could... I need to, I need to, um, work on that. Travelers is... Or the more books you do, I thought it would get way easier, but it gets so much harder. There's just so many things to suddenly think about. Um, and so it kind of eats into, uh, um, um, time a bit. But yeah, so I would, um, look on my website. They're available on Amazon as well and all good wholesalers. And I, uh, I'm coming actually to New York, because you're in Boston, so not too far away. Um, my publisher's in New Jersey. Uh, I do an annual book launch, and so I'm coming to New Jersey and I'm going to launch in September, and we hire a paddle boat and paddle around the Hudson River, and it's always very fun. So, so reach out to me for that if you'd be interested, and the more the merrier. Um, and it's always just really nice to hear from people. Um, and so do, uh, do send me a message. Maybe you could send... If, uh, whenever I go and do events, I always ask the kids what their favorite animals are, and it kind of can help inspire. Um, uh, if they have a favorite animal, it might end up in a, in a future subsequent book perhaps. That Lindsay Lyons: is awesome. Molly, thank you so much for your time and conversation today. Oh, well, thank you. Gosh, it's gone in a flash, but it's been lots of fun.
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AuthorLindsay Lyons is an educational justice coach who helps schools and districts co-create feminist, antiracist civics-based curricula, discussion opportunities, and equitable policies that challenge, affirm, and inspire all students. A former NYC public school teacher, she holds a PhD in Leadership and Change, and is the founder of the blog and podcast, Time for Teachership. Lindsay believes all students deserve literacy, criticality, and leadership skills. Archives
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