245. A Humanizing Approach to Coaching with Dr. Jacobē Bell

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In this episode, we chat with Dr. Jacobē Bell, an instructional coach, researcher, and author. She shares powerful insights on humanizing instructional coaching through authentic relationships and practical strategies. 

Dr. Bell emphasizes the importance of shifting from teacher-centered to systems-level thinking, maintaining genuine care for educator wellbeing, and surfacing and addressing teacher beliefs through curiosity-driven conversations. This episode is full of practical advice and insights for instructional coaches.


The Big Dream 

Dr. Bell envisions a world where coaches and educators experience genuine wellness and contentment in their daily work, free from initiative fatigue. She dreams of all coaches embodying a humanizing approach that centers educators as co-producers of knowledge in coaching conversations—empowering teachers to draw on their own experiences and expertise in ways that support both their continual growth and their wellbeing. 

Mindset Shifts Required

The shift from teaching to coaching requires seeing the system differently: understanding how individual teachers fit into larger grade teams and the school ecosystem. Coaches must accept that they cannot make everyone happy with every decision, releasing the need to be universally loved while keeping student outcomes central. 

This involves applying the improvement processes teachers naturally use in classrooms to facilitate meaningful professional learning with teams of adults. Coaches must also learn to navigate the intersection of their own values with other adults' beliefs about students, instruction, and equity.

Action Steps  

As Dr. Bell has coached teachers—and coached coaches to coach teachers—here are action steps she’s found useful that can be applied in your own context: 

Step 1: Have explicit conversations about preferences for live coaching, feedback delivery, and even logistics like whether to greet them when entering mid-lesson.

Step 2: Structure coaching visits in three parts when possible: pre-planning (identifying issues and establishing look-fors), micro-modeling (demonstrating a 15-20 minute lesson segment while narrating your moves), and immediate teacher practice (breaking teachers into small groups to try the strategy with students while you provide real-time feedback)

Step 3: Approach conversations with genuine curiosity about what shifted and when, assuming the best intentions while creating space for honest dialogue about the whole person—not just the practitioner.


Challenges?

Coaches are navigating both instructional improvement and the emotional well-being of teachers… Diverse teachers who all communicate and want to be coached in different ways! This can be tough to navigate, as can the “initiative fatigue” teachers often feel, which may create resistance to yet another change. 

Further, a difficult challenge is addressing deeply held beliefs about student ability and instructional practices, particularly when those beliefs conflict with equity-focused coaching goals. 

One Step to Get Started 

Find your authentic coaching voice by reflecting on your unique personality and strengths rather than trying to follow a one-size-fits-all coaching formula. Start by genuinely asking teachers their opinions about their practice and truly listening to their responses—not as a checkbox in a coaching protocol, but as a foundation for building the rapport, relationships, and authenticity that undergird all effective coaching work. This human-centered approach creates the conditions for everything else to follow.

Stay Connected

You can find this week’s guest on LinkedIn to stay connected.  www.equityconsulting.org and Instagram @centeringmyjoy.

To help you implement today’s takeaways, our guest is sharing a reproducible “Recognizing The Hidden Curriculum” with you for free. And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 245 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below.

Quotes: 

• 8:42 “ If we're saying that every kid, every day, deserves strong instruction and strong instructional materials in front of them … What does it look like to meet their needs in ways while also balancing teachers' beliefs?”
• 26:11 “Generally as an entry point, asking teachers their opinions—and really hearing them, not just going through the motions.”  ​

​​If you enjoyed this episode, check out my YouTube channel where you can learn about more tips and resources like this one below:

TRANSCRIPT
Lindsay Lyons: Dr. Jacobi Bell, welcome back to the time for teachership podcast.
Lindsay Lyons: Thanks for having me again. I'm super excited to be here.
Lindsay Lyons: I'm excited because there are so many elements of the book that we talked about, and we can link to that in the, um, show notes as well for this episode. But there's so many elements of your coaching strategy and approach, and even like snippets of the conversations that you've had with teachers as a coach that are.
Lindsay Lyons: Just so good. And as myself, as a coach, I'm constantly trying to learn and grow, and this is something that I think a lot of teachers kind of get slotted into this position of instructional coach 'cause they're great teachers and it's like. Well, where's the professional learning for coaching?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Yeah.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Sometimes it's like baptism by fire.
Lindsay Lyons: That's right. And so it's like, you know, where, what I think we're trying to do and where this episode will air is kind of part of a mini series on instructional coaching and some ideas for instructional coaches to really be supported and grow in that [00:01:00] position. And so I guess the first question is.
Lindsay Lyons: What should people kind of keep in mind or what are you bringing in mind to the table, um, to, to this conversation? I mean, uh, as we kind of think about this topic, I know you've shared more about yourself in a previous podcast episode, so feel free to bring that in, but also like as an instructional coaches or anything else we should know,
Dr. Jacobe Bell: uh, sure.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: The last seven years I've been. Coaching instructional coaches, um, which is something that I take a lot of joy in. Um, and I also have been instructional coaches in both public schools, um, private charter prior to that. Um, and from each setting I gained kind of like different techniques or approaches.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: 'cause each setting was like uniquely. Different, you know, so, but all those things [00:02:00] kind of shape me and what I'm bringing to this conversation today. Um,
Lindsay Lyons: thank you for sharing that. And you're right, the context totally does matter. So that's an important thing to note. Um, I, before I asked you about your Freedom Dream, so feel free to bring any part of that in here as well, but I am, I'm also curious, I know you had a beautiful chapter, um, on a Afrofuturism in your book that we talked about, and I think.
Lindsay Lyons: I, I wonder, I guess if, does, is there any sort of like a afrofuturist dreaming that is part of your definition of like instructional coaching specifically?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Ooh, that's a great question. I don't think I've been asked that. So I think right now is a hard time for educators more generally, um, with. Ever increasing demands, accountability, you know, all the things.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: And as coaches we often navigate, yes, the instructional piece, but then we also [00:03:00] have to navigate everything. That's not the instructional piece as well. Like the emotional, like, are you okay today? Like how are you? Um, genuinely. 'cause depending on where you're at, our coaching conversation can need or need to look.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, slightly different. Um, but also what I see is because there's so many like initiatives on top of initiatives, a lot of educators experience like initiative fatigue sometimes. And so when I think about Afrofuturism and freedom dreaming, I think about a world in which. Coaches, um, and educators, um, have a sense of wellness, um, and a sense of contentment in their day-to-day work.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: And I think about as coaches specifically, [00:04:00] um, like this dream that all coaches that we would embody, like a humanizing approach to coaching. It was like a big spectrum of, you know, what coaching can look like, student outcome driven, relational driven, uh, you know, professional learning, PD driven, like, et cetera, et cetera.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: And they all, some are more effective than others, you know, um, but also dreaming about centering educators in this process because they also come with knowledge and experiences and how do we empower. Them to be like co-producers of knowledge in the coaching conversations, um, in ways that work for both them, um, and their continual growth, um, and in ways that like maintain their wellbeing.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: 'cause right now, I, I, I do think it's hard out there. [00:05:00]
Lindsay Lyons: Oh, that's so, that's so great because it really encompasses, again, the context of like, where, where are people, what are we asking of people? What do we not ask? Like how are you, I mean, all of it. Um, I, I love that you got at the different approaches, right?
Lindsay Lyons: And that some are more effective than others. And I, I also am thinking about. You know, just even when you said co-producers of knowledge in a coaching conversation, I'm like, oh, right. Because I think about that in terms of the co-producers of knowledge being students in a classroom from the student lens or from the teacher lens.
Lindsay Lyons: And now I'm a coach thinking, okay, right. That totally is relevant for the coaching teacher dynamic. And so now I'm thinking about are there. Mindset shifts that are necessary to transition kind of from that teacher mentality to a coaching mentality? Or is it really similar and that we should treat students very similarly to, to teachers?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: I see it similar and different [00:06:00] at the same time. Um, I think the switch to coaching from teaching. I had to see the system a little bit differently, and I had to see how like individual teachers play into a larger grade team or play into a larger like school ecosystem. I had to put on my hat, like, especially when I first started coaching, I was coaching former peers, you know, like former teachers that I taught with, et cetera.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, and I had to like. Do this dance. And I had to actually learn as a leader as well, that with every decision you make, you can't a hundred percent make everybody happy. And you can't a hundred percent make everybody love you, right? Like yeah, it's human nature to wanna be loved and like people think you're the greatest, right?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, and I had to kind of look [00:07:00] in the mirror and realize that. You know, when I look at the whole ecosystem and what's working and not working for kids, kind of what needs to shift. Um, and so that's something I had to kind of change. I also had to. Think about how do I systematically lean into improvement?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: I think as teachers we do it kind of unconsciously. Like, oh, I'm gonna try this thing, see how it works. Then based upon how it goes, I'm gonna adjust it. Or you know, we kind of just unconsciously do that improvement process. And it's similar as a coach. Um, but I think. If you're professional dev, um, doing PD in a, like a team setting now it's like applying that same process that you might not even be self-aware that you were doing as a teacher, but then how do you kind of facilitate that process with a team of adults in a way that feels meaningful to every single person there?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, and that every single person feels heard. Um. And has [00:08:00] like clear things they're excited to take away. So it's like there is overlap in some of it. I think also thinking about how values and belief systems is different when you're like in your classroom. Um, but then also like when coaching you come up against other people's values and beliefs of other adults, you know, what they think about kids, um, how they see a situation and how you may see a situation slightly differently.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Right? Um, and so I think, I know when I a coach, that's one thing I had to kind of. Shift a little bit is like if we're saying that every kid every day deserves strong instruction, strong instructional materials in front of them. Um, and as we know, students come in at a lot of different entry points. Um.[00:09:00]
Dr. Jacobe Bell: What does it look like to like, meet their needs in ways, um, while also balancing like teachers' beliefs? Um, yeah. I could go on, but I'll stop there.
Lindsay Lyons: No, I, I love that because I, I'm thinking about the beliefs and, and some of the kind of coaching conversations that I was reading that you have had with teachers just from the book.
Lindsay Lyons: And I'm curious, what is like, as we think about the kind of a toolkit of instructional coaches or like kind of an approach that you would take as an instructional coach, what are kind of the action steps that you have found to be helpful for coaching teachers or like coaching coaches to coach teachers, both from the sense of like.
Lindsay Lyons: Broad kind of you, you mentioned like looking in the mirror and just having this kind of moment of, you know, I need, I realize I need to do this, or I realize that this is important and, and also I'm thinking about what stood out to me. Were some, even at the very specific level, some of the questions stems or the types of [00:10:00] questions that you asked that get at those beliefs and allow you to surface them and raise them in conversations.
Lindsay Lyons: Even though it's probably uncomfortable for everyone, like they have to come up and we have to get after that conversation and so. I'm curious from just like a professional learning for coaches approach, I guess, like what are those things, both big or small, whatever feels best to start with, that you would recommend for coaches to, to consider in those teacher coach relationships?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Yeah. I think a lot of times, like how one can perceive a kid, a situation, a practice, um, can be shifted when people can see it like tangibly. Um, and so one of my favorite ways to coach, I used to like put a name to it or something, or write about it or something because I don't have like a juicy way to explain it kind of.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: But, um. Is essentially [00:11:00] like a micro model, right? Like so often sometimes as coaches will like model a whole lesson and yeah, that has its place, but sometimes I find it even more effective to do a micro model for like a shorter period of time. And then after that micro model, have coach, um, have teachers like repeat it with smaller groups of students within that same period as you give them feedback.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: So, for example, yesterday I was in a school, um, and one of the coaches I coach was like implementing this, I don't know, protocol strategy. Um, and she did it so beautifully. I was like, yay, I love when these things work out. Um, but she was like, there were some beliefs about like certain kids being low, um, or more difficult.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, and like. Not participating in the phonics lesson, et cetera. And so the coach [00:12:00] modeled, um, like the 20 minute lesson, and then there were four teachers. Actually five that were like observing and they had, um, look fors to kind of pay attention to her teacher moves and then student reactions or actions.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: And then, um, teachers were broken up into five groups and they knew this prior to going into the classroom, right? Like we had a pre-planning conversations with them that morning. So when we came back later that day, they kind of knew what to expect. Um, but then afterwards they were broken up into five groups and each.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Teacher was at a table with like five, six kids and then they repeated the lesson, but with different letters. So they were able to implement like the methodology that they saw her do. They were, um, able to implement like the rhyming cadence of like the letters that make it catchy and help with engagement strategies.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: They were able to start with like. Starting with whole class drilling in when you [00:13:00] hear the misconception and saying, you know, so and so, let me hear you, you know, and then going back out, um, for sitting on here over on the side, let me hear you. Like, uh, and so it was, she implemented it beautifully. Um, so then teachers were able to implement it in their groups, and then we popped around from group to group to give teachers.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Feedback in the moment on how well, but it was great 'cause you saw them, like they just saw it, they're implementing it. Um, and that's one of my favorite strategies. And then as you're doing that, narrating what you're doing. So if I'm the coach being like, you know, teachers notice how IX, Y, and Z and then do it.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: So you're like kind of narrating the things that you wanna point their eyes to as you're doing the micro model. Um, the beautiful thing about this strategy is that
Dr. Jacobe Bell: it, well, one, if I think [00:14:00] about yesterday, like the teacher who'd been like, oh wow, this is hard. This student, you know, um, it's hard to collect data. And then these students are like ones that are a little harder. Every single one of like the four or five names that were given about harder students. Were able to get it, and they were able, when called on to say it, you know, and it might not have been perfectly the first time, but then the second or third time they had it, and it was like a beautiful like moment of like shifting the, the mindset of like, oh, they can do it, you know, um, but how do I give them better access points to do?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: So, um, so that was one in terms of by seeing it, it like shifted mindsets and then two, by actually applying it right then and there. You don't have to wait a week later or two weeks later when the coach comes again to kind of try it out. It's like you're gonna get immediate feedback as you try it then.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, so that's one of my favorite, my favorite strategies. Um, and then at then afterwards of course [00:15:00] you debrief with the teacher team on what went well. What were your takeaways? Feedback from me and my micro model, you know, like, um, so that's one of my favorites.
Lindsay Lyons: I love that so much. I'm so curious. So logistically, when does this happen?
Lindsay Lyons: Is this like a PD time where you get the teachers and then you invite the students in? Or is this like class time where there's already students there? And you just have teachers come into one teacher's room?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: I've done it both. Um, ideally my favorite way is to do it with actual students in the class structure.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, and usually we rotate. So let's say there's maybe three teachers on the team. One teacher will start being in the classroom with the micro model, et cetera. Then the next visit, maybe it's somebody else. Um, but you're still building on knowledge and skill even though the classroom of students may be changing 'cause you're gonna try it and.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Multiple teachers' classrooms if you're able to. Sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes we do it in one teacher's, we get it and we kind of go on to the next part of the coaching cycle. Um, [00:16:00] and usually, ideally it would take three periods in the day. I know schools don't always have those three periods to free up teachers.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, and so usually it would look like a pre-planning of like, oh, you know, this is what we noticed. Here are our look fors. Anything missing from our look fors. Um, you know, who do we wanna. And then talking about like the issues that are happening and then how you're gonna try to address those issues. So teachers talk about like pacing.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Okay. So, and all the issues they're naming, trying to like tuck those in your micro model. Um, so that when they go in, you kind of, they, their eye is kind of honed to it. And then the period of the micro model and then them trying it, and then the debrief on the. End. Um, and the debrief isn't, it depends.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: I've seen it done in 20 minutes, you know, 'cause that's all you had. Um, I've seen it done in a period I, in terms of the pre-planning, I've seen that like happen in like a quick [00:17:00] 15 minutes. Like, let's huddle you, or honestly, I've seen it happen in like three minutes where it's like there's no. There was no pre-planning, but things and templates were sent out via email or the prior visit.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: And with the understanding, like on my next visit, this is what we're gonna do. And then you like go in, give kids a big juicy question about like, oh, tell me the most exciting thing about your weekend. You got two minutes to turn and talk. And they're like, okay, teachers, let's huddle really quick. And then you go through the plan and then you bring it back and then you actually like start the micro model.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: So it's. You know, we live in the land of flexibility. 'cause schools are all different. Different, you know.
Lindsay Lyons: I love that. Thank you for laying that out. Both like the whole, the whole cycle of, of the day, but also, um, just logistically how to make that possible and, and also recognizing the, the constraints that I think some instructional coaches may be listening and being like, Hmm, I don't know if I can make that happen, but here's what you can do.
Lindsay Lyons: Love it. Super practical. And I, I'm also wondering, so the values. Piece, like surfacing values is like really, [00:18:00] really interesting to me. And also I think a really hard thing to be able to do. And I'm also recognizing, so in this situation, in this approach, you were talking about, um, having a team of coaches.
Lindsay Lyons: So you're coaching a team together. Then I'm also thinking about like a one-on-one dynamic. So you have one teacher and one coach who's maybe like debriefing a lesson or, um, confronted with maybe like. Something that the coach or the teacher says in that conversation, and now we wanna like unearth or dig into it a little bit.
Lindsay Lyons: Like, oh, you mentioned like you're struggling with, with some students, or, or they're not getting it. Like, let's dig into like what language you use or anything like that and like kind of uncover the values there. Um, I'm curious in general of kind of what your approach is to situations like that. Both.
Lindsay Lyons: And I guess does it depend on the one-on-one? Does it depend if you're in a small team, like how you approach it? Um, yeah. Any tips for all of us on that?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Yes. This is. Also living in the land of flexibility because it, it depends so much on the context, the teacher, [00:19:00] the, um, whatever. But I'll share a couple of the strategies that come to me offhand.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: One is sometimes just saying it back to them, um, and seeing how they respond. You know, like, oh, so I'm hearing you say that X, Y, Z. And then giving them a chance to respond. You know, and sometimes they clarify in ways that you're like, oh, I get it. And sometimes it's um, you know, a different value relief, um, belief, um, especially about like kid ability sometimes.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: It's like, oh, well can you tell me more about that? Um, sometimes I blame my coaching, um, as a way to lower the effective filter of like, you know, I know we've been working together a couple months. Um, we've modeled and some planning, yada, yada. Um, and I'm still seeing like our. Our co-constructed look fors, um, for [00:20:00] instruction and student engagement aren't quite where we want them to be.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: I'm wondering if there's something I'm doing or not doing as a coach, um, that's, you know, impeding you meeting these goals. Um, so I've done that quite a few times because it like opens the conversation in a way that. It is making it about you, the coach, like, am I, what am I doing or not doing? You know, because this is not working.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, and I find that has been, um, pretty effective, um, in some of my tough, tough coaching conversations. Sometimes I feel like honesty, I'm one of those people that I am a pretty direct person. Um, but I try to find ways to say it. Um, and ways that people can receive it. So, um, I was working with this teacher, I think for two years, one-on-one coaching, and, um,[00:21:00]
Dr. Jacobe Bell: um, it wasn't, it wasn't working, um, and it didn't seem like the teacher was really in it anymore. Um, so one of the coaching conversations like, you know, I, I kind of told her like, you know, I hope you can hear my heart on this. Like, I notice that, you know, oftentimes you seem checked out or, um, you know, not all in on teaching or, you know, planning for your lessons, et cetera.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Like, I know you've been at this a really long time. Um. I know, you know, you haven't moved this way for your last 18 years of teaching. Um, so I'm curious of like, what shifted and when did that shift or how did that happen? Um, [00:22:00] and that honestly opened up a really beautiful conversation, um, for us to talk about practice support.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: And just like vulnerability and seeing, like she had a lot of things on her plate personally and just like, you know, like to see the whole person, you know? And then it comes from a place of like assuming the best versus the like, you know, the opposite.
Lindsay Lyons: I love that because there's this validation that I think a lot of people in teaching in general just need.
Lindsay Lyons: It's just like I need to, especially veteran teachers who have been in it for so long, like, I need this wisdom to be worth something like this time investment to be worth something. As you're validating that, and then also just love the approach of like, I hope you can hear my heart. That's just, that's so.
Lindsay Lyons: I just love that that's such a human thing to say and feel and, and be present as well as like the curiosity. I think that's constantly, the thing I wanna get better at is like, how do we just stay curious and. [00:23:00] Approach it with like, I'm, I really wanna know, like I wanna know so I can help you. And I wanna, like you said, kind of as assume that your intentions are good, you wanna be a great teacher, and like, let's figure this out.
Lindsay Lyons: I love that that worked and I just love all of those hallmarks of good teaching in, in the good coaching conversation as well. That's so good.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Yeah. And you know, I'm glad you named Curiosity because that also works within the moment coaching as well. So like sometimes when doing live coaching, there's been times where like.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, maybe a, um, something that was said is like quite not quite right, right? Like, I was in a classroom where, um, they were reading a Jacqueline Woodson book, I forget which one it is. Um, but, and then they were reading nonfiction to give context, et cetera. Um, and the teacher as teaching, um, oh, in the book, um, a black Boy is killed for having a, um.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Uh, fake gun, right? And, um, [00:24:00] the teacher said something about like, black boys, um, are bigger than white boys. And that's why like police thought that he was whatever, whatever. Um, so I just raised my hand and I was like, oh, you know, Mr. So and so are black boys, really bigger than white boys, you know, and then just kind of.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Let that conversation happen. Um, I will say with live coaching though, I, I didn't do that the first time I met the teacher. Right? Like, I developed a rapport. We talked about how do you like to be coached? What does side by side or live coaching look like? Um, and what are the norms you wanna have, right?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Like there's some teachers might walk in their room, they're like, don't talk to me if I'm in the middle of a lesson. Just kind of come in and like, whatever. And then there's other teachers I've had like. Be like, that was so rude. You walked in and didn't say hello. And I'm like, I'm sorry. You know? So now I've learned to kind of ask like, how would you [00:25:00] like to engage?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: You know, if I'm walking in mid period or, you know, um, but yeah.
Lindsay Lyons: Wow. Good on you to, to raise your hand and say that. That is brilliant. I wouldn't have thought of that. That's so good. Oh my gosh. Um, I feel like we can talk all day long of realizing that we're getting to the 30 minute mark. I don't know how that happens.
Lindsay Lyons: Uh. I'm curious, is there like a particular thing that you find as a nice, like I can implement it right away tomorrow kind of strategy? I mean the, I think the questioning is, I also think it may be like, as you were saying, I was like, oh, right. That would, that would not come to me automatically. So is there, um, something that people can start to try to do, like maybe it's fine to spot for the question as, as opposed to like craft a brilliant question, but like, what's the starter step?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: In like terms of live coaching,
Lindsay Lyons: in terms of any, any part of being an instructional coach. So I mean, we could even [00:26:00] broaden it out to like what's the self-work? I mean like any part of instructional coaching. Yeah.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Yeah. For me, and I mean this kind of goes back to the reclaiming authenticity book, but like for me, like we're all unique people.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: And how do we be authentic to ourselves, our roles, um, in ways that, that our personality are like, you know, like some of the coaches I coach. Some of the things they do in schools, I'm like, oh wow. Like I could not do that, but it works really well for you. You know, like just the personality wise, like it works really well.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: And I know that sometimes, like my directness works really well for me and something about my affect surrounding it like works well. Um, but then for some people it may need to look a little different. So I have a [00:27:00] hard time saying like, Ooh, the one leg, um. The one thing because I feel like people kind of have to find their authentic, um, way.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: But I do think generally as an entry point, um, asking teachers their opinions, um, and like really hearing them, not just going through the motions. Like, what do you think went well with your lesson today? Okay, well what I saw was yada yada, you know, it's like. Finding authentic ways to en engage. And there's so many like coaching formulas and things out there, and a lot of 'em are great.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, but I think what undergirds that is like rapport, relationships, and like authenticity.
Lindsay Lyons: I love that. I love that. That was like not a, here's a one size fits all answer that is, that's very real, very authentic. And so I, I think as we're we're closing out, I just wanna, I'm curious [00:28:00] about the things like professionally or not professionally that people are learning about when they come on the podcast.
Lindsay Lyons: And so I'm curious to know what you have been learning about lately. So it could be related to instructional coaching, but it doesn't have to be.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Yeah, I've been reading a lot about change management and sustainability. Um, the last couple years I've helped implement some pretty large scale initiatives, but then even thinking about at the school level and the changes we wanna sustain in schools.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Um, there's a certain amount of like, change management that occurs that I think as educators we don't really talk about. Um, like that, or same with like sustainability. Like there's some schools like, oh, with it, I'm like, wow. Like I can see the fingerprints of all the things we focused on. Right. Um, and then there's others where it's like, oh, because of teacher turnover or for whatever reason, um.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: It's a little harder. So it's [00:29:00] like how do you plan for sustainability from day one versus like, we did these things, great, we feel good. Are they gonna still occur after our coaching? We don't know. You know, like, so I've been reading a lot and thinking a lot about sustainability.
Lindsay Lyons: Oh my gosh. I feel like we could do a whole other podcast.
Lindsay Lyons: That is my jam. I'm so excited. Um, okay, cool. Well, where can people connect with you and, and learn more about your work and, and continue to follow your stuff?
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Yes, LinkedIn. Right now I am active on LinkedIn, Dr. Jacoby Bell. Um, and that's the best place to connect with me. Awesome,
Lindsay Lyons: Dr. Bell, thank you so much.
Lindsay Lyons: This was such a treat.
Dr. Jacobe Bell: Thank you, Lindsay.

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