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In this episode, we chat with Dr. Chad Dumas, an educational consultant and author of the recent book, The Teacher Team Leader Handbook: Simple Habits to Transform Collaboration in a PLC at Work. Dr. Dumas discusses key strategies to enhance collaboration within an educational setting, drawing on insights from educators and researchers.
Dr. Dumas emphasizes the importance of psychological safety, which he describes as the cornerstone for effective teacher team dynamics, and introduces the concept of paraphrasing as a crucial communication tool that ensures mutual understanding. Additionally, Dr. Dumas highlights the significance of specificity and accountability in overcoming generalizations, encouraging teams to engage in practices that maintain focus and progress. The Big Dream Dr. Dumas envisions a future where educational collaboration is done through simple, powerful habits. His dream is to cultivate educational environments where psychological safety and effective communication become the norm, allowing teachers to work collaboratively in a way that significantly enhances student learning and development. Mindset Shifts Required To achieve effective collaboration between educators, an important mindset shift is to embrace the concept of community. A community is when we’re caring for each other as the whole, and as individuals—exactly what teachers must do to successfully collaborate together. Part of building this community is creating a psychologically safe space where open expression and cognitive conflict are encouraged. Safe spaces do not always equal comfort or “being nice,” but are a place where each person comes as an equal and contributes to the shared values and goals of that community. Action Steps To build effective collaboration between teacher teams, here are some key action steps to prioritize: Step 1: Know your responsibility. Dr. Dumas’ vision for creating collaborative teacher teams revolves around understanding the three key responsibilities:
Step 2: Master paraphrasing. In Dr. Dumas’ words, “paraphrase is like magic.” It’s a powerful tool because, while it doesn’t indicate agreement, it helps the speaker feel understood and the listener understand. Adopting this habit in your teacher teams, educators can move forward with productive conflict and growth. Adopt the habit of paraphrasing in your communications to ensure that all parties feel understood, which will aid in productive conflict resolution and enhance psychological safety. Step 3: Embrace specificity and accountability. Work towards specificity in discussions to avoid generalizations that impede improvement. Develop strategies to hold team members accountable in a supportive and engaging manner. Challenges? One big challenge educators and teacher teams face is getting specific rather than relying on generalizations. In Dr. Dumas’ words, “generalizations are the enemy of improvement,” because they don’t give you real steps to improve. For example, a generalization like “students aren’t understanding this concept” doesn’t tell you anything about what specific students, what part of the concept, etc. Specificity helps teacher teams make real improvements. Another challenge for teacher teams is holding each other accountable to the pre-established norms. Dr. Dumas suggests several ways to set up systems of accountability, which are elaborated on further in his book. One Step to Get Started To begin implementing these transformative ideas, educators can access the free reproducibles available on Dr. Dumas's website and the Solution Tree site. These resources offer practical tools to help educators take first steps toward transforming teacher team dynamics. Stay Connected You can find this week’s guest on his website, Next Learning Solutions, or on social media: X @ChadDumas, Facebook, and LinkedIn. To help you implement today’s takeaways, Dr. Dumas is sharing The Teacher Team Leader Handbook with you for free. And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 231 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below. Quotes:
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TRANSCRIPT
00:02 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Dr Dumas, welcome back to the Time for Teachership podcast. 00:06 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Thank you, excited to be with you. 00:08 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I'm so excited. I'm excited about this book and I'm also really excited I don't think I mentioned this to you but we're going to release this episode in concert with, like, several others that I think make a lot of sense, both for teacher leaders as well as kind of facilitating in classrooms as well. I think that's relevant for, like, wherever you kind of enter into the facilitation or construction of, like navigating a group and getting a group to be productive and to do all the things that you mentioned in the book. So I kind of want to set the stage there that this is being released on the heels of, like, all a bunch of other books that kind of talk with one another, and I think we'll see that today. Is there anything that you want people to know as we enter the conversation today? 00:52 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Well, I love that. You know, this book builds on the greatness of lots of people who have come before us. Right, like you maybe heard, I think I think it's in the Bible it says there's not a new idea under the sun. You maybe have heard, I think it's in the Bible it says there's not a new idea under the sun. Right, like there are a lot of great, great greatness that we come from, and then we come and we build on it. We say, ah, here's a way to organize that, or here's a way to structure that, or here's a tool to help with that, and so the intent of this book wasn't really to create like there's not a lot new in it. 01:24 It's organized in such a way that I think that the greatness of the work of people like Michael Grinder and Kendall Zoller and Bob Gardison and Carolyn McGanders and Bruce Wellman like the list goes on and on and on and I haven't even gotten into the PLC at Work people of Rick DeFore and Becky DeFore and Bob Aker and Anthony Muhammad and Mike Madden the whole list goes on and on and on. And what I have tried to do is take all of that and put it into a usable, simple format right Like the subheading for the book. The heading is the Teacher Team Leader Handbook, but the subheading is simple habits, simple habits to transform collaboration. So, out of all of the greatness of all of those people before us, how can we take that and put it together in such a way that it's simple, usable and it can do what the sub-title intends transform collaboration? 02:17 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I love that framing and it kind of grounds me to this first question I was thinking about, where you know, I usually ask about mindset. But you have very clearly laid out kind of the three responsibilities of that facilitator and so, yeah, I think you call them teacher team leader responsibilities, right, and so I'm curious if you can kind of ground us in those, because I think a lot of times I mean me as a teacher leader it's like, oh, the job is to like go through the agenda or read off these points. It's like that's very low bar. 02:48 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what I did was pulled together all again a lot of research from other greats and, in this case, around the responsibilities, really gets to a lot of the work of Amy Edmondson and Charles Duhigg and others and the idea. So there's three responsibilities that I identify. The first responsibility is the most important and that's to create psychological safety. If we don't have psychological safety, we're not going anywhere, like that's. That's the, to use the Latin term, the one Latin phrase that I remember from high school sine qua non. Sine qua non, without which there is nothing. If the team does not have psychological safety, everything else will become compliance, it could be toxic, et cetera. So that's the number one responsibility of the teacher team leader is to make sure that there's psychological safety. Make it safe. The second responsibility of the teacher team leader is to build capacity. The second responsibility of the teacher team leader is to build capacity. So that means that we're helping each other learn why we're doing what we're doing and how to do it. Like you said, you know, sometimes teacher team leaders think that their job is to do the work. Well, that's the third responsibility. As the team, we're going to do the work, but I propose that that responsibility is actually the least important of the three responsibilities. 04:05 The most important the two that are never talked about are make it safe and build capacity. When you are doing that, then the doing the work will become more manageable. We're sharing the load, we understand why we're doing it. We're able to do it in a space that is safe for us. And let me just say a word about safety too, if you don't mind that sometimes people confuse safety with comfort or safety with nice. I was born and raised in Nebraska and the tourism slogan in Nebraska for many years was Nebraska, nice. That's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about just like we show up and we're polite to each other and then the real meeting happens out in the parking lot with our car keys in hand. What we're talking about is a psychologically safe space where everyone is able to express their views, and they do express their views. We're able to have conflict that's cognitive as opposed to relational or affective, right. So these are the three responsibilities Make it safe, build capacity, do the work. 05:16 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I love too that you just define that for us, and in the book you do that as well. You even list out Edmondson's I think it's like seven indicators or something that she like. I really appreciate the depth of that, because I do think people often say things now as like kind of a term that gets thrown around, like, oh, it's a safe space. It's like what, like? What are you even talking about, right, and you can't just declare it safe. It's something that the group what I got from your writing as well is that the group needs to. Each individual of the group needs to perceive it as safe, to actually have psychological safety. It's not something you could be like I'm the team leader and I say it's safe here right, yeah, yeah. 05:53 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) And Duhigg actually identifies two elements to psychological safety. The first element is social sensitivity, that is, the degree to which we perceive and recognize the nonverbal communication behaviors that others display and respond appropriately. The second element of psychological safety is equity of turn-taking. So there's not one person dominating, there's not one person sitting around not doing, you know, contributing at all. So that's what comprises psychological safety, those two things, social sensitivity that my book addresses through the moves and techniques that the individual teacher team leader can use and leverage to develop that social sensitivity. And then the second part is the equity of turn-taking, which is all about the strategies and protocols to be able to get everybody's voices in the room. 06:48 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Oh, I love that so much, just in the way you frame it and the way that is so parallel to exactly how your book is structured. 06:53 so intentionally yeah yeah, I love that and I think so. The other thing I was thinking is and we can quickly touch on this but I think you have so much research, as you said, you kind of build on everyone's. I mean I saw Freire in there a few times that I was like, oh yes, this totally connects and one of the things that's like kind of the reasons for dysfunction that Lencioni brings up. I think a lot of people could see that in their meetings and be like, oh yep, I've seen that come up. I know exactly the meeting that comes to mind when I think about this. So I'm curious to know if you could kind of touch on that for a minute for us. 07:24 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Yeah. So Patrick Lencioni came out with I think the name of the book is the five dysfunctions of a team or something like that, and so he identifies these five dysfunctions and then the parallel what does that look like on the opposite end when you have function? And so I just raise those five signs of dysfunction that you can see in teams. I don't dig into it a ton in the book, rather just kind of raise it as like a be aware of absence of trust, absence of accountability, absence of follow through. These types of things are indicators of dysfunction. And then what I also say is now, an absence of dysfunction is a pretty low bar, right, like I don't know if I've met anybody who says, yeah, I want to go to this meeting. That's not dysfunctional. 08:18 What a higher bar that we want to strive for is that of community, and block has a great definition of community, where it's a caring for the whole, where each of us are part of the whole, caring for the whole, and the whole is caring for us. And so I think that's really important to keep in mind that this book is part of the subtitle is in a professional learning community and community is there professional learning community and community is there? Professional learning, community those words were not chosen at random, they were chosen right. It grew out of the 60s, in the work of Shirley Hoard and the Southeast Educational Regional Laboratory and others, and so we have a long line of this phrase. And community is very intentional. And so, as a leader, as a teacher, team leader, what are we doing to build that community? And again, it goes beyond just feeling good, being nice, having good treats, although those are helpful, that's not the end. All be all a community where we are caring for each other as the whole and as the individuals. 09:25 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) You know, that makes so much sense to me, especially because I have my head on. I'm thinking about what will come out after this episode is released is that I think I'm going to do a solo show, thinking about how all of these kind of like leader, facilitator books are actually also similar, as I said, to like teaching and a class and things like that. And I'm already thinking about, right, we use the word community in terms of a class community as well, a school community, like inclusive of young people as well, and it is also so important that it's not just nice but it is truly all of that learning, you know, as part of it as well. I mean Zaretta Hammond's work kind of connects to that right and all of it. So I just I love the parallels that you're making me think about. So this is really exciting stuff. 10:04 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Oh yeah, you're absolutely correct. So I've had the opportunity as part of this book launch. Schools have reached out and said, hey, we want you to come do some training. So I've done some some one day overviews, but also some multi day. I refer to it as a teacher team leader academy and as part of those. 10:24 It's wonderful to be working with these teacher team leaders who then raise these exact point that you're talking about, this idea of psychological safety. Like you could take those three responsibilities and apply them to the classroom. Number one responsibility of the teacher in the classroom make it psychologically safe. Number two responsibility build the capacity of students to be able to understand why they're doing it and what they're doing. Number three responsibility do the work Right. Like that that translates to the classroom, and so it's really wonderful seeing teachers make those connections, that it's not just the teacher team leader in a team, but these same assumptions, mindset, habits right, that's in the title of the book. They're habits. These same habits apply in a classroom, they apply with your partner or spouse, they apply with your children, they apply with other family members, your neighbors. These really are simple habits that can transform lives is maybe a big word, but that's probably fairly accurate when people start to use and leverage these, these habits. 11:29 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I agree and I mean, what better way to like get people interested in making potentially hard changes in habits? It's like actually this is not just for work, right? This is for your whole, everyone you interact with. This is being a human, so I love that Absolutely. 11:44 Yeah, yeah, and I and I think one of the things I was thinking about too, as everyone you interact with this is being a human, so that I love that absolutely, yeah, yeah, and I, and I think one of the things I was thinking about too as well, I mean I just read um, I always forget the name of this book hands down, speak up or speak out, I can't remember, but it's like k through five conversations that are student-led and how do we, like you know, put on the students? It's a bunch of like mini moves. One of them is kind of a synthesis paraphrase, which I know Carolyn McCanders and I were just talking in the podcast about this you have named in your book and I'm curious about some actions that you might take. Your whole book is full of these habits that we might take, some strategies, some kind of mindsets, and I am curious to know about some of them. 12:21 The paraphrase what I'd love to get to, but any other ones that you want to pull in, feel free. Curious to know about some of them. The paraphrase what I'd love to get to, but any other ones that you want to pull in, feel free, like what does what does that mean when you're in kind of the moment and you're responding to lots of voices or particular types of voices, that maybe there is a little discomfort or whatever happens in a meeting Like how do I enact some of this stuff? 12:41 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Oh yeah, yeah, paraphrase. Paraphrase is like magic. So the paraphrase, actually. I learned this phrase from Carolyn McDaniels and I would use it when I would go into difficult meetings. And if there was a meeting I was going into and I knew it was going to be a challenge, I would write it on a sticky note and I'd put it on my computer in front of me so nobody else could see it, but I could. And it said this it said paraphrase your butt off. So like it is that powerful of a tool and paraphrase those two things. 13:19 When you paraphrase someone, it's, first of all, it's not. Before I tell you the two things that it does, it does not indicate agreement. I can paraphrase someone without agreeing with them. What a paraphrase does is it does two things. At first, it helps them to feel understood and two, it helps me to understand. And that's it. With that clarity of them feeling understood and me understanding, now we can move forward with productive conflict. Without them feeling understood and without me understanding, we're not able to move forward. 14:01 You've probably been in situations where you've, and your listeners have been in situations where you said something with someone and then they went a totally different direction and five minutes later you're like, forget about it, it's not even worth it. There's that cycle, right? You're like you just went down a whole path that I have no clue what you're talking about. Well, you can save all that breath, save all that energy by just a simple paraphrase, and paraphrases don't have to be long. They actually shouldn't be long. If your paraphrase is longer what somebody else is saying then work on it to get better at it. A paraphrase really needs to encapsulate the nuggets of what they're saying, and Carolyn McAnders I look forward to listening to that episode, by the way, because she is a master oh, she is absolutely incredible, can listen to her for days on end Her ability to take the nuggets of what somebody is saying and synthesize it into a few small things. 15:02 And so in the book I draw on Garmston and Wellman's work around the paraphrase, and they different folks talk about different types of paraphrase. I think their three types are the easiest to understand. The first type is to acknowledge. It's simply to acknowledge whether you're frustrated at or you're angry at, or one of the things that you've been thinking about is all I'm doing is acknowledging back what that person said. The second type of paraphrase is an organizing paraphrase. 15:37 People especially if you're in a leadership position, right, like a teacher, team leader or a principal people come at you and I sometimes use the phrase they verbally vomit on, like they just all the things. They haven't had a chance to really think through what they're saying. They're just like getting things off their chest. So an organizing paraphrase might be helpful for them. What does that look like? Okay, so it sounds like there's three things that you're talking about here, or there's two things or four important right? So I'm, I'm organized, and then I'm saying and the first one is blah, blah blah, the second one is blah, blah, blah, and the third one is blah, blah, blah. That's an organizing paraphrase. And many times when, when I engage in organizing paraphrase, people will say oh yeah. 16:22 I never thought of it that way Thank you, and off they go and then they start to solve it themselves, right. Other times they say, well, maybe it's really two or maybe there's another thing there. The point is is they're starting to feel understood and now you're understanding. So the acknowledging paraphrase, the organizing paraphrase, and the third one is the abstracting paraphrase, which I find particularly challenging myself. It's taking things from a concrete level to an abstract level, or the other way around, from an abstract level to a concrete, very challenging. I think. 16:58 It takes a lot of practice, and in my book what I do is I have a graphic that kind of lays out those three with some potential, like what they are. Some potential sentence stems how it might apply in a group setting when you're working with others, because it's one thing to paraphrase an individual, it's another thing to paraphrase when I'm in a group of two, three, four, five other people Equally, maybe even more so powerful to be able to say so. It sounds like as a team, we're saying these three things, or it sounds like maybe this might be the next appropriate step. Paraphrasing for the group is very powerful. 17:36 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Yeah, and I I mean I that's so exciting and I also think that's the hardest. And what I'm heartened by is, in this book, the K-5 student led discussion one. One of the moves was literally the abstract paraphrase. I didn't call it that, but it was like take what the group has said and and be a student who says it sounds like there's two groups of thought here, this and this, right, or it sounds like we could go in this direction, cause this is kind of where a bunch of people's thoughts are and I love that, even though it is so hard. Like if we lean into that for kids as well as adults, like everyone can be doing it and we can help people like be good at it before they get to that adult moment where they're like oh, this is really hard if we're practicing it. K-12. 18:18 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Yeah, yeah, if we're practicing and teaching and practicing with kids so that it becomes part of, in the adoptive schools, garmston, wellman, mccander's work. They talk about it becoming part of identity. Right, so it becomes who you are, not just what you do. 18:37 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I love that and I've been playing a lot with this idea of like values. I think fit in that abstraction piece Like can you identify the values someone is bringing to a conversation about like a political issue or something? Right, like that feels and correct me if I'm wrong but that feels like you're taking from the concrete? I believe in this policy or I disagree with this policy because this is a value I'm holding on to that's deeply important. Is that right? Okay? 18:59 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Yep, yep, yeah, and so in a paraphrase world, it'd be paraphrase Mac. So it sounds like this because of this, this is the value that you hold. 19:06 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) That's helpful. Thank you, okay, so there are so many challenges. I usually ask Trevor that challenge at the end, but I feel like people are just filled with the people who have had this experience of doing teacher team leadership. They're filled with. 19:18 There's this moment where there was this challenge or even people who are just a team member and haven't been in the leader role, like, yeah, like this was the reason I don't want to go to that meeting, like as you alluded to before. So there are several you mentioned. I'm sure there are several more that we can talk about. People can get the book for the full rundown, but I am particularly interested in a few of them. 19:39 One of them, I think, as a coach and a facilitator, is like we say sometimes as educators, these really big statements that feel like they're usually like the gut check moments for me that I'm like, ooh, something feels off here, like it feels like we're not saying the thing and instead what we are saying feels maybe problematic, even potentially. And you have this beautiful I don't remember if it was a table, I wrote down a page number, but like it was kind of thinking through what are the prompts that you can offer in that moment of someone saying something that is general and not helpful to get it to the specific. I'm not talking about that. Well, can you talk us through that more? Yeah. 20:18 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Yeah, yeah, so I can remember. Actually, I was the day that I thought of this phrase that really encapsulates this idea, and I was in California, southern California, paris, california not spelled France, it doesn't look like Paris France either and had been working with some teams in that area and that morning, like I was in the shower and the flash came to me generalizations are the enemy of improvement, like. That's a pretty broad statement and I think it's accurate. Generalizations are the enemy of improvement. I'm too fat, I'm too skinny, I'm too skinny, I'm too whatever. Okay, so that's not going to help me get better. What I need to do is get specific. What are the foods that I'm eating, what are my exercise routines, what's my sleep regimen like? What is my social life like? We need to get into the specific nitty gritty, and if we just say I'm too whatever, that's not going to get improvement. Generalizations are the enemy of improvement, and so that's where this. So I said that this work builds on a lot of people's work. 21:43 There are a few things that are unique to me that I created, which is I don't know, it's kind of cool, I guess, but this is one of them where I've not seen anybody talk about this being an actual strategy that a teacher team leader uses in a team, and that is specificity, because generalizations are the enemy of improvement. We got to get specific. So when comments are made about students, staff, whatever the culture, the climate, we got to get specific. One that says here are some examples of generalizations that you might hear in a team so, at a generalization, like students, students just aren't getting this concept. Okay, so then I lay out well, why is that a generalization? And then here's a prompt that you can use to help prompt the team to move forward. So if somebody says, you know, kids just aren't getting the concept, well, that's a generalization, because which students, which parts of the concept is it? Just like, are we specific enough in that? And so then what might be a prompt? So a prompt might be something along the lines of well, so it sounds like we're frustrated because certain kids are struggling with this part, which part? And which kids? Now, let's get specific. 23:16 I was actually just working with a team recently where they said well, you know, the reason why kids aren't being successful is because they're not here. Like, if they were here then we would do better. And I said so let's look at the kids. So are there kids who aren't getting it, who are here? Well, yeah, okay. So what are we going to do about those kids? Like the kids not here? Teacher classroom you can do some things to like engage them while they're there, but that's a systems issue. We got to help get the kids in the classroom assistance issue. We got to help get the kids in the classroom while they're in the classroom. If they're there and not getting it, that's the issue we got to address. So we're getting. We got to get. Specific generalizations are the enemy of improvement. 23:58 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) That's such a good example. I mean that that resonates, yeah, that people have said that, and that's like Ooh, what do you do? 24:06 with that. Thank you for that. Now I know I mean you have so so many other ones. I mean I don't think we'll have time to get to all of them. You have one I really like about groupthink, right, like bringing in external voices to combat kind of groupthink where everyone thinks the same thing. Oh, not following norms, I think was a good one, because I mean I also think about those classroom parallels. Right, we all set norms, meeting or class, you know, and then we don't follow them. So I mean, one of the ones that I really liked was that you had had you said someone like assigned people to break a particular norm on a schedule and just saw if there was accountability. Oh my God, that's brilliant, isn't? 24:46 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) that hilarious? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a team I was with. Isn't that hilarious? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there was a team I was with, and I shared this with other folks too, where? So? 24:53 So the idea is, we set our norms, let's acknowledge up front that every single one of us is a human being. Let's just like, let's just lay it out there, like this is a fact we're a human being and as human beings, we're going to screw up. Every single one of us is going to screw up, and we're going to screw up. Every single one of us is going to screw up and we're going to break a norm. So let's see if we're going to hold ourselves accountable to it. So this is a strategy where, early on in the year, right after we set the norms, I saw a team do this and now some other teams have shared it with and have been doing it. Let's take those norms, put them on little strips of paper, cut them up and put them in a basket. And then let's take the first several meetings and dates and put them on a piece of paper on little strips, cut them up and put them in a different basket. Each person draw out a norm and a date and that's the date that, without anybody else knowing, you are assigned to break that norm and see if anybody holds you accountable. 25:49 And holding accountable doesn't have to look like yelling at people. Holding accountable should be like a light and easy thing because we know we're going to break norms. So like have a fun way, create a system, how are you going to hold each other accountable? I was with a team that they had a thing on their agenda. It said throw something not sharp but gently at at them. Other teams will have like little plush toys. I was in a team they had little nerf guns and anybody just like to start to reach for one of those. And everybody was like, oh yeah, you're right, exactly some fun way of being able to hold each other accountable. And so then when you, when it's your date assigned, are you actually you actually held accountable? Because if you're not, then that says something about the psychological safety of the team. What do we need to do then so that we can feel comfortable holding each other accountable to our norms? 26:40 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I love that, in addition to the amazing specificity of your ideas there, I also just love that accountability is an element of this. I have seen many great teachers who are fantastic at setting the norms of getting you know everyone, all the kids, to participate, and we agree with them right in a class level as well as a teacher level, and the accountability piece is the piece that's missing, and so it didn't really even matter that we set the norms. 27:03 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Exactly. It's not worth the paper it's written on If we're not going to hold each other accountable to them. It's just a waste of time if we don't Totally, totally. And it has to be a mutual accountability. That's a key piece too. It's not the teacher team leader's responsibility to hold everybody else accountable, it's not the administration, it's the team. We set these norms. I love Bill Ferreter. He uses this phrase. He says norms are an expression of our needs. So we as a team, as a third grade team, have set our norms. Those are an expression of our needs. If our needs are not being met, then we're not going to be effective. So make sure that our norms, our norms, we hold each other accountable so that we can have our needs met. 27:50 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) That is such a good phrase. That is such a good I'm like using that. 27:53 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Oh yeah, oh, bill Ferreter is incredible, yeah. 27:56 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) That's so good Cause, I think one. One thing you may even mention in the book is like sometimes people struggle to come up with norms and so like figure out in your brain, like what's a meeting that didn't go well or that you didn't feel great about, and like what was an unmet need, and like how do you create a norm based on that missing thing, and so that makes total sense now that you've connected the dots for me, thank you awesome yeah yeah, yeah, and so I guess it too. 28:18 Moving to close up, it's incredible, we're almost out of time here. Uh, lots of ideas shared. What is one thing, in addition to going to get the book which I encourage people to do and we'll drop a link in the show notes that people can do, like today, tomorrow, like as they end the episode here, to get kind of started with some of this stuff. 28:36 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Yeah, yeah. So even if you don't have the book, I encourage you to get the book. Solution Tree has free reproducibles for all their books, and so those are available on the Solution Tree website. For the book you have to create an account. They don't spam you, so it's okay to get an account and I also have all of those reproducibles on my website as Google Docs. On Solution Tree's site they're PDFs, On mine they are Google Docs, so you can just make a copy and then off you go to use them, and there's about 50 downloadable reproducibles for this book and that website. I did a tiny URL for that, so it's a tinyurlcom, and then slash TTLHChad as in teacher team leader handbook Chad TTLHChad. Folks can go there, access whatever they like and start digging into the reproducibles and then get the book if you'd like. 29:31 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Amazing, and we'll link to that as well in the show notes, in case anyone's driving or doing things not writing that down. 29:36 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) We'll get you Perfect yeah. 29:38 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) And then I think I asked this last time, but I'm just always so curious for guests. What is something, dr Jamis, that you have been learning about lately? It could be professionally or it could be something else, and actually I think the last one you said was about this book in the last podcast yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I was in the throes of it. 29:58 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) So, yeah, things that I'm learning about. I love this work because I get to learn every day about how to help a team move forward. So I've got a number of books right on my desk that I'm looking at digging into here over the next couple of weeks. We're recording this in June, so I've got some work here in June, but I've also got a week actually a whole week that's just open. So I just finished reading Brig Lane's PLC dashboard, where the dashboard component, I think, is particularly powerful. For how do we know the teams are? How do we know, first of all, who we need to support and then, second of all, who and what we need to celebrate, and without a dashboard, you're not able to know that. So that's been really cool. 30:49 Also been reading about celebrations. Sean Cresswell and Katie Sue Treykoff, I think, is her last name have some incredible work around celebrate to motivate and the power of celebrations even simple celebrations and there's actually there's a Facebook group called Celebrate to Motivate that anybody can join that. It's incredible Like people go on there and post different ideas of what they're doing for celebrations. In their school I learned so much with those things popping up Celebrate to Motivate a really cool page, and I haven't read the book yet, but I'm sure it's amazing because I know those two. 31:24 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) That's incredible. I mean, that's something we didn't even get into with your book, but there's a ton of stuff about joy and celebrations and there's like page numbers I noted to be like, oh, this is how you celebrate. So yeah, that's something we didn't even scratch, but that's in the book. 31:36 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Yeah, yeah. 31:37 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) And finally, people are going to want to connect with you. I know we'll drop the links that we mentioned, of course, in the blog post, in the show notes, but where can people like, connect or follow you? 31:45 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Yep, Yep, I'm well. I am on Twitter or X or whatever you call it these days, and it's a simple hashtag, just at Chad Dumas. No numbers lines, underscores anything like that, Just C-H-A-D-D-U-M-A-S. And then I also have I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook and I have tiny URLs for those as well. Tinyurlcom slash learning Chad is the LinkedIn one learning Chad and the Facebook one is FB learning Chad. So either way of those people can reach out. 32:15 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Amazing, dr Dimas. Thank you so so much for this conversation. 32:19 - Dr. Chad Dumas (Guest) Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. 32:20 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Of course.
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AuthorLindsay Lyons is an educational justice coach who helps schools and districts co-create feminist, antiracist civics-based curricula, discussion opportunities, and equitable policies that challenge, affirm, and inspire all students. A former NYC public school teacher, she holds a PhD in Leadership and Change, and is the founder of the blog and podcast, Time for Teachership. Lindsay believes all students deserve literacy, criticality, and leadership skills. Archives
November 2025
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