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8/4/2025 222. Solution Tree author: Their Stories, Their Voices with Kourtney Hake and Paige TimmermanRead Now
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In this episode, we chat with Kourtney Hake and Paige Timmerman, co-authors of the book Their Stories, Their Voices. They bring real-world experience as English teachers to their book and this conversation, arguing for a shift from test-focused curricula to a more engaging approach that prioritizes students' personal experiences and creativity.
By exploring four distinct types of narratives—informative, analytical, persuasive, and reflective—Paige and Kourtney demonstrate how personal stories can enhance learning for students. The episode also emphasizes the importance of reflection in education, offering practical strategies for teachers to incorporate reflective practices into their classrooms. The Big Dream Paige and Courtney's big dream for education is to create environments where students have the space to tell their stories, preparing them for more than just a test. The dream is to empower them for real-life situations and scenarios, going beyond simply what’s covered on the SAT. In an English class context, they envision classrooms that prioritize authentic writing, allowing students to blend genres and express their identities through narrative. Their dream includes teaching students to write in ways applicable throughout their adult lives, emphasizing the human element in education. Mindset Shifts Required To achieve this vision, educators must shift their mindset from a rigid, test-prep-focused approach to one that values narrative writing and creativity. Paige and Kourtney encourage educators to look beyond traditional genres and embrace the blending of different writing styles, as seen in real-world writing. It’s about pushing against being put in a box of how you can and cannot write, and having a more open mindset. Action Steps To start prioritizing student voice in narrative writing, educators can begin by understanding four different narrative types:
With these in mind, educators can implement the mini-lessons from Paige and Courtney’s book to allow flexibility and creativity, even within a rigid curriculum. These lessons help build relationships and provide students opportunities to express their identities through storytelling. It’s also important to emphasize reflective practices in teaching, making reflection an explicit part of the curriculum to promote growth and understanding among students. Challenges? One challenge educators might face is picking or designing a unit that meets the needs of every student, as they’re all diverse. Educators may also find it challenging to break away from rigid curricula that dictate how you do things, and adapt to what students really need to spend time on to learn, even if it means forgoing the arbitrary deadlines that are set. One Step to Get Started To begin, educators can establish an environment where students know that their voice matters—there’s a place here for their stories. From there, you can begin integrating narrative writing into the classroom with the notebook prompts provided at the end of Paige and Courtney's book. Stay Connected To stay connected, you can find Paige on X at @TimmermanPaige or via email at [email protected]. You can find Kourtney on X, Instagram, and Blue Sky under the handle @whatthehake. To help you implement today’s takeaways, grab your copy of Paige and Kourtney’s book, Their Stories, Their Voices. And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 222 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below. Quotes:
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TRANSCRIPT
00:02 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Paige and Courtney, welcome to the Time for Teachership podcast. Thank you for having us. Absolutely so. I think you know the audience has just listened to your bios. What is important for you to have audience know as we kind of jump into our conversation today, I know for me it is certainly that your book, their Stories, their Voices, is incredible and everyone, all listeners, should grab it and we'll talk more about it today. But what is on your mind, or what do you want people to be thinking about? 00:33 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) I think for me. I just hate this tendency that we have to stop asking students about their own experiences. The older that they get, we're asking them to write about themselves a lot in the elementary level, but whenever they get into the higher grades we focus so much on test prep and getting them ready to take the SAT that we forget that they are humans having an experience and we should be giving them platforms to share those experiences. So I think just making sure that narrative becomes a cornerstone in the secondary classroom as well is sort of the idea that this book was born out of. 01:18 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) Yeah, I think also one of the things that I like to think about is how to engage our students. Middle school is where I'm at, and some days they're awesome, some days they're not. But getting them engaged in the writing and trying to get them excited about writing is really difficult, and so adding their voice back into it is a way to add that engagement, to get them to write about something that they actually care about. 01:50 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Such a good point and, like I cannot tell you times where my students were more engaged than when they were talking about themselves and issues they cared about, right, like that's how you do it, so I love that. And so one of the first kind of questions I usually ask is, in line with the idea of freedom, dreaming, which Dr Bettina Love describes as dreams grounded in the critique of injustice what is that big dream that you hold for education? And I think you both kind of started speaking to this. I don't know if you want to elaborate on it a tiny bit here. 02:18 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) Yeah, I will elaborate. 02:19 I mean to answer that I would reiterate, obviously, the fact that our students deserve to have space to tell their stories. I think that's an important part of education, but also I feel like I'm doing my students a disservice if I do not prepare them for more than just a test. I want to teach them to write in ways that may not be covered by the SAT, but ways that they're going to be exposed to throughout their whole adult life. So whenever I look at what a narrative looks like in the real world whether it be a blog post, a memoir, a social media post even I see all kinds of blending of genres that I don't see in schools. In schools, we tend to teach different genres in different boxes and you cannot blend them at all, but whenever you look at what real writers do, there's all kinds of blending going on and there's all kinds of rule breaking, and so I want to be the type of teacher that looks at what real writers are doing and isn't afraid to say, well, why can my students not do that too? 03:30 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) Yeah, I think whenever we were looking at what does narrative look like, we kind of found a lot of things that you wouldn't traditionally think of as a narrative. They weren't all just memoir, they just incorporated their own voice in some way, and so that's kind of speaking to that blending of genres, that that's what authentic writing is and that's what we can get our students to actually want to achieve. 03:54 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Yeah, one of the things I absolutely loved and like this was always my inclination as a teacher, but again, you guys have just like operationalized it. 04:00 You've done such a beautiful job. 04:02 It's like what does it look like in the real world? 04:04 Right, like so, even when I would teach test prep, I'd be like, okay, let me find some like really funny, like comedic, kind of feminist article and then we're gonna like learn how to answer these silly choice questions based on this awesome article, because this is like at least engaging, and so I love that you pull in all of the examples, the social media posts that you have, the professional authors, the student writers and kind of books and collections that you've had, and as well as your own students of early on, is kind of the mindset shift that teachers might have to kind of embark upon when they are thinking about including or really making the space required to do this work well, for writing narratives amidst all of the other pressures and curricula things that you've seen like what is it? 05:04 That either, for each of you was kind of like an aha moment, like yes, we need this because you know whatever your why is, or that you've seen like in people reading the book and kind of grappling with that prior mindset shifting over to like no, there is a need for this work and we need to make space for it. 05:25 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) Yeah, I think for me our curriculum that we currently use doesn't really teach narrative. And then the narrative that it does teach is the last quarter, which normally we don't even get to that because you know of state testing and all that stuff. And I've been looking at other curriculums because we're thinking about switching and a lot of curriculums use narrative at the end of the year and then on the state test they're asked write a narrative and so it's it's. They're not practicing the skills throughout the year and then they're expected to perform that on the state test. And so incorporating those skills throughout the school year has become a little bit more of my priority to make sure that the students are prepared for that test, because if they haven't been asked to do it, then how are they going to be performing that on a pressured state? 06:19 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) For me. I think it kind of just to go back to what I was talking about earlier, this idea of blending genres. I know I've really had to push against that in my own instruction because the way I was taught you don't use I at all in anything other than a narrative. So if you're writing a research paper, there is no space for your voice. However, whenever I read like these really beautifully written op-eds, which I would consider a, you know, a research writing, I don't want to call it assignment, but that's a genre that that requires research as well. 06:52 The most compelling op-eds to me incorporate a personal story. It doesn't have to be at the forefront of it, it doesn't have to be the main focus, but if there's like a small vignette in there of how the author relates to this issue, it makes me care about it more through that human element. So I know just kind of pushing back against this idea of you can't do this in this type of writing, and opening it up and allowing my students to explore different ways to write without putting them in a box, I think is what is probably the biggest challenge of this mindset shift, but also the part that comes with the most rewards. 07:39 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) That's so well said and it makes me think about our national political landscape and the way that that people talk to one another or don't talk to one another. And and one of the things that I have heard as a critique of like the democratic party is kind of like um ways of sharing information is like it is very statistics, it is very um facts, it's very research paper, as if you were to teach it in that box. Right, it is like here is that there's like the personal stories have been removed. It is not as engaging like that's fascinating, like I imagine like one of your students could actually be like a political consultant or something for someone to be like. When you are trying to get people to listen to, you incorporate personal narrative like that could be fascinating. 08:22 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) I'm teaching about Anne Frank right now. We're reading the play based on her and you know I can tell the kids day in, day out about the events of the Holocaust, but until they hear it from a child their own age and hear what she went through, it does not sink in. 08:39 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Yeah, that makes total sense too, right, like I mean, we're human beings, so I just I love that narrative is is in. It is the focus of your book, but it is weaved into like four different pieces too, which I really appreciate. I mean, maybe let's go there. Do you guys want to give us kind of an overview of what are the four types of narrative that you name? And then also just my curriculum writer brain is is on fire reading this book, cause I'm also thinking about you. Know, you guys suggest kind of a planning approach. You have like a kind of a um weekly, a three-week calendar sample of like how would you actually arc out a unit on narrative writing? Um, so I don't know if one of you wants to take each of those or how you want to divide it up. 09:19 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) I will say that those unit plans are all pages, baby, because she uh did so much work making sure that it works in an actual classroom, because I am I'm a little bit more tied to my curriculum of what I can do and she had a little bit more freedom, and so those were unit plans that were tested in an actual classroom and so Paige did a really good job on those. But as we were researching, we kind of found that all these different narratives that we were reading were kind of falling into four different genres, if you call them, or types of narratives, and so we kind of named them based on that. So we have the informative narrative, the analytical narrative, the persuasive narrative and reflective narrative. 10:17 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) So to expand on those, the informative narrative would be. Your main goal of writing is to send a message, is to teach your audience about something, provide them information. But again, don't be afraid to bring in that narrative element. So, for example, if you are trying to do like a cautionary tale and you're trying to warn your audience against the dangers of using social media too young, then bringing in that vignette of okay, well, here's what happened to me whenever I was a kid and I started using social media and here's what I went through and then using that to inform. 10:53 The analytical narrative is really that's where we brought in a lot of podcasting type assignments, because we feel like podcasts themselves are just an exercise in analysis. You're not necessarily trying to answer, you're exploring questions. You're not necessarily trying to come up with one concrete answer, you're just kind of looking at it through different angles and so in that chapter of our book you'll find lots of. I mean, we have different modes of projects in each chapter of the book, but this one especially. We love for podcasts because it's a way to explore something and bring in your own story as you're exploring, but more for the goal of just deepening your knowledge and your thinking and becoming smarter after going through the exploration, rather than just trying to find the answer, the persuasive narrative. That one is what I would formerly think of as my research paper, where I'm making an argument, I'm trying to teach my audience something or to believe something, I'm trying to elicit a change, but I'm doing so through the use of my own story. So if I've gone through an experience that was really meaningful and it's connected to what I'm writing about, I shouldn't be afraid to include that experience. 12:16 And then, finally, our last chapter focuses on the reflective narrative, which is what we think of whenever we traditionally think of narrative as just sharing a story for the sake of reflection and personal growth, because we still do believe in that, even though we're trying to blend genres, we still recognize and value the narrative in what it was traditionally seen as. However, we like to kind of look at well, what does the narrative look like today? Because you know we've all seen those journal prompts that we've given our students in the past what do you, what you do over the summer, or what's your favorite Christmas memory? And we're trying to kind of push back and find new experiences, especially for our older students. So in that chapter we really try to focus on multimedia type projects because narrative looks differently. We're seeing like graphic memoirs come out now. We're seeing people sharing their stories through podcasting and we want to give our students those experiences. They may not be comfortable writing about it, but they might be comfortable sharing in another way. 13:26 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Yeah, I absolutely love. I love how you've laid it out and the multimodal kind of pieces are fantastic. I mean I also think about a lot of so I was an ELA teacher and a history teacher and the history kind of coach side that I have I operated. Now a lot of the history teachers I work with are like oh, writing is such a challenge for students and, like you know, they can do the thinking in history, but the writing is the really hard part, and so I imagine that history teachers could also pick up this book and I'm just thinking of like that you know, analytical essays and stuff right, like we're doing stuff like that all the time, like merging the narrative, figuring out the multimodal piece. I mean there's such a level of access that you're providing teachers for their students who may not traditionally be successful in writing. That's really exciting. So thank you all for that. 14:15 I think there's so much else in here, I mean in terms of like the specific actions you guys get really specific in those sample units. Is there anything that was like a really I don't know exciting one to teach Paige? I know that Courtney said you've taught a lot of these, or is there a particular kind of lesson or part of like, kind of a staple part or component of the unit arc. That's kind of agnostic to any of the four categories. That is like exciting to you that you want to name Sure the analytical narrative narrative yeah, in the experimental narrative project we always. 14:57 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) We love to talk about this one I'm glad you asked yeah, uh, because it's also, even though it was my student that did it. 15:05 It's also courtney's favorite, so I did so it's also my favorite part of the book because I'm so proud of my students. 15:13 So one of the narratives that we that I had my students do we call, we ended up calling it the experimental narrative, and the idea was I wanted my students to learn something new or try something new that they had never done before and kind of document their progress of that journey. And we see that in several texts so the mentor texts we use for that little and often about a man who builds a boat to try to understand his dad better, so he builds a canoe by hand, dragon hoops. About a teacher that wants to learn more about basketball. He doesn't know anything about basketball, wants to learn more, so it's about his journey. And then the last one was what I'll have, what she's having, which is a narrative about a journalist who tries all these celebrity fad diets to see if they really work, and so we read excerpts from all of those. I have to mention we did not encourage the students to also try the fad diets. Courtney was very clear about that that. We need to make sure we make that clear. 16:17 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) The part about her book that was really good for the students I thought is like the first introduction or first chapter, where it lays out her ground rules of this is how I'm going to do it and if this happens then I'm not going to continue and that kind of thing, and that. That was the part that was really good in that one, because the diets were insane. 16:39 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) Yeah, really funny too. 16:42 Funny stuff going on there. So, anyway, we looked at a piece from each of those texts and I challenged my my own students. Okay, piece from each of those texts and I challenged my own students. Okay, I want you to make something new or learn something new or try something new. You have a few weeks to do it. Write down some notes as you're doing that and then we'll come together in a month or so and we'll hash out your notes and make it more of a narrative writing project, and it was just fun to see what the students came up with. Like, I still have a bench at the front of my room that was built as a result of this unit. It's really helpful because I put papers on it. 17:20 I had students do things in the kitchen that they'd never done, like connecting with family members, and I emphasize, like you don't have to spend money to do this. Like I had one girl that was really good at hair and she wanted to do this hairstyle, so she practiced it, watched tutorials and did the hairstyle on her sister. One of the projects that really stood out to us is one of my students is very skilled artist and she wanted to learn how to draw a more realistic face, and so she practiced, over the course of the time that I gave her, drawing different like. She zoomed in on different body parts the eye, the nose, the mouth and she really worked on it. And you can see the progression in the book of like what her face looked like at the beginning of the process and what it looked like at the end, and then she wrote about that experience. I don't know if, courtney, if you had anything else to say. 18:18 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) Yeah, my favorite part of it was she was really struggling, I want to say with the eyes and you know, instead of getting discouraged and quitting or just moving on, she went and watched YouTube videos. She asked her art teacher for help. She thought about different things that she could do to continue learning on that process, and that's a skill that a lot of our students struggle with. Whenever they're not doing well or they're not getting the results they want to, they want to quit it. But she had that kind of resilience to continue on and I loved her writing about that. 18:56 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I think in the spirit of that I'll ask my next question. So, thinking about challenges that we encounter in learning new things and trying new things, are there challenges that you all have faced in teaching or having students engage with narrative units, or for people who have kind of picked up the book, read it and tried to implement, like colleagues you've coached, or teachers you've talked to any challenges that they've faced and like how have you worked through it or coached someone through that challenge? 19:25 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) I would say for me, I know whenever I have students write with narrative and I think any ELA teacher can relate is sometimes it's a beautiful mix of like finding the right prompt at the right time for that student, and we're not always able to achieve that 100% of the time. I mean, we're not perfect, but that is why we structure our book the way that we did. I think you had asked about structure earlier and we didn't quite get to it, so I did want to come back around to that. Each one of our chapters is laid out kind of like a menu. We have like a menu at the beginning of each of our chapters with content, because we want to offer our authors or, I'm sorry, our readers lots of choices whenever they're planning a unit. 20:07 It's kind of almost like a build your own style book, and so we give lots of ideas for mini lessons at the beginning, like what skills at the sentence level of their writing do your students need to work on? Choose a few of these from here. Now, what are some different prompts that you can give to help them start thinking about topics in their life where they can utilize these skills? So then we have like different starter projects and then we have bigger unit projects. So I and I don't remember off the top of my head how many we give of each, but we wanted to make sure there was a plethora of choices. And so again, kind of going back to your question, I would think the biggest challenge is picking a unit and designing and building your own units so that it meets the needs of your students. It's hard to meet everybody's needs all in one unit, but we hope that through the choices that we offer, that we can reach everybody at some point. 21:13 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) I think one of my challenges is I get in my head about I have to follow the curriculum and I'm real bad about OK, the curriculum says Monday, I'm doing this, tuesday, I'm doing this, wednesday, I'm doing this and I lose track of. Ok, what are my students struggling with? And it's when I get into the weeds of that that I have to remind myself to stop and think OK, what are these students struggling on and what do they need help with? And that's where I pull in those mini lessons and those craft move skills, and so it's trying to kind of see the bigger picture rather than focusing on. I got to get through this because my arbitrary deadline says that I need to, and so my challenge in my own head is just getting out of my head and focusing on my students. 22:02 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) I love that and what I love about how our book is laid out sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off is that that challenge that you're talking about, courtney, is that you can go into our book really easily and find a small mini lesson that you could use to work on that skill. So somebody that is tied to a curriculum that may not be able to adopt a huge unit like we talk about, we feel like there's still something in there for them to help students, maybe in a smaller way. 22:34 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Absolutely for sure. I love the structures and just, yeah, the plethora of examples that you have that you could easily go in and pull. I highly agree and I think there's there's so much that you know, corny, what you were talking about in terms of seeing the bigger picture. I loved kind of in your I think it was in your epilogue that you were talking about the relationships just being so important and that we would always make time for relationships with students and learning about students. And they do that through narrative writing. Right, they tell you who they are and I just love that. That is often the bigger picture. 23:05 Often the thing that you know gets caught when we are trying to cram a lot of curriculum in. That is like missing, right, it's like a human element, and so I just love that this is curriculum and it gets at the human element. So it's really cool that you can do both. I also just love that I wrote the sentence down so I'm paraphrasing slightly, but that typically when we have students read that students are trained to look for an answer, not marvel at the craft, and you're like you're so right. Right, it's like we rarely invite students to just open up and marvel at the craft at the sentence level. What did you like? And that you have them actually create their own craft move chart. That's like student driven from the mentor text that you provide. I just a lot of what we talk about in this podcast is like student agency and student voice and how do we just like let the students drive the learning? 23:52 And I was recently in a PD where someone was talking about grammar and how it was so frustrating and I was like, oh, mechanically inclined, um, by jeff anderson. Thank you, anderson, yeah, and it's like, oh, my gosh, I saw that referenced in your book and I was like, okay, so they know what's up like. This is so fun to just kind of extract and read, to marvel at the craft and be able to let that interest kind of drive their own narrative pieces where they're writing about what's interesting to them in a way. That's interesting to them because you've structured it in a way that they can find something really interesting and then go for it. So I just I love all of the pieces of this. I don't know if that sparked any thoughts for you all. I just wanted to name all the things I loved. 24:32 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) Thank you, and you know it's funny. I think the the more high level our students are and I say that ironically because I don't like putting students in a box of honors and not honors but I think our students that are most motivated struggle the most with just marveling, because they are, they're looking for the answer, they're trying to do school. What do you want me to do? I'll do it. I'll jump through the hoops so I can move on and just stopping and pausing and admiring that beauty. I think that's just a powerful experience that we can provide to them. 25:12 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Absolutely, and so one of the things that I'm excited about is this episode is going to drop, actually, at almost kind of like the start of next school year. So as people are finishing up listening to this episode, they're like driving into work and like their first week or whatever. What do you think is something that they could do like right away, either from a planning lens or even like a teaching implementation quick activity lens, for them to kind of lean into more narrative writing this year? 25:40 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) I think a good place to start is the notebook prompts that we have at the back of the book. There's a. We just have resources to find different notebook prompts to get them jump started on thinking about writing about themselves and writing about their interests writing about themselves and writing about their interests. 25:58 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) Yeah, and I would echo that too. I think for me it's just a matter of establishing an environment where students know that their voice matters here, making sure we're having those conversations with them, making sure we're giving them an opportunity to share their own stories, even if it's not through a big, huge narrative unit, even if it's smaller ways, like if it's not through a big, huge narrative unit, even if it's smaller ways, like Courtney was talking about, through a notebook, just establishing that environment and showing them that you are important in here. And, yes, tests are important, but your story is more important. 26:33 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I love that. So this question just came into my head a little behind the scenes how do you all you have so many amazing resources in here for a mentor, talks and different ideas. How do you all kind of like organize yourself to do just kind of read for fun in whatever you will capacity you want, and then just like have a notes app or something where you jot all these ideas down? Like how do you come up with all these great resources? 26:57 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) A lot of the texts we were already reading and it was hey, this is this would work, this would work. And so most of the texts I had already read or page had already read, because we're just big readers to begin with, and so that that was a major part of it. 27:17 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) Courtney's a bigger reader than I am. I'm just going to. She gave me my flowers earlier, so I'm going to give her hers. She had all kinds of text ideas. So yeah, I mean and I think that's true of most teachers I mean we're naturally inquisitive, we want to learn, so we're all readers to begin with, and so you just never know when you read something like when it's going to take shape in your work later. 27:43 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) Yeah, I always had like a notes app or a Google Doc or something going or it's like just bookmark that for later. 27:47 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) Yeah, I just finished Dashka Slater's Accountable, like earlier today. I don't know if anybody's read that one yet, but I don't know what I want to do with it yet, but I know that it's. It has a space in my classroom in some way. I just think that it was really powerful, so that's one that I'm kind of marinating with right now. 28:07 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) All right, you're adding to my TBR list. These episodes always add to my TBR list. 28:22 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) It's about a sorry. It's about, like, a social media account that was posted in 2017 and some racist things were posted about some students at the school, and so then it follows the fallout that happened, how the teens that not only it was posted about were affected, the teens that posted, the teens that followed the accounts. 28:33 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) So I like how she's looking at it in all these angles counts, so I like how she's looking at it in all these angles, fascinating. Okay, I'm opening myself up here to add more to my TBR list, but what is something that you each have been learning about lately? So, paige, you can choose another one or you could be, like I've said, mine, but what is something, either professionally or personally, or in your reading life? 28:55 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) I've been diving into different instructional methods, books of trying to figure out, okay, how do we learn and how does that affect how we teach different things, and so I've been looking at Natalie Wexler's newest book, which I can't remember the title of, but something about the science of learning that is really fascinating, about focusing on not just the science of reading, but how do we learn in general. 29:27 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) And we're kind of working together on that a little bit. Courtney's looking sort of at the scientific aspect of that and I'm looking more, I would say, at the practical application of it. And how do we invite students to reflect a little bit more about what they're learning so that it's more meaningful, and what do those invitations to reflect look like in the classroom? So we're kind of looking at that together in different ways and sharing our ideas together in different ways and sharing our ideas. 30:02 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) One thing that I love about what you all do in this book is building that reflection so often that I often think is missing because we are trying to just get through things and then that critical piece of learning is just like vanished because we don't make time for it. So I do love that in your unit outlines you have those. 30:15 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) It's such an important part of instruction, Like being a teacher. We're just reflective individuals and I know I would be nowhere without reflection. That is what has taught me all the lessons. But when you look at your students, I mean reflection's a skill that needs to be built and a lot of them don't have that yet and they may not have an avenue to learn how to do that outside of school, and so it's interesting to us that it's not provided more explicitly in instruction. 30:45 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) So true, and I think people are going to want to get this book, so we will certainly link to it in the show notes and the blog post for this episode. But where else can people learn more about the two of you or connect with you online? 30:55 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) learn more about the two of you or connect with you online. 31:02 - Kourtney Hake (Guest) I am on Twitter at Timmerman Page or X, I guess, and through email at TimmermanP at SalemHighcom. 31:16 - Lindsay Lyons (Host) I am on Twitter, instagram and Blue Sky at what the Hake Amazing. Paige and Courtney, thank you both so so much. This has been a wonderful conversation and thank you for a brilliant book. 31:26 - Paige Timmerman (Guest) Thank you so much for having us.
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AuthorLindsay Lyons is an educational justice coach who helps schools and districts co-create feminist, antiracist civics-based curricula, discussion opportunities, and equitable policies that challenge, affirm, and inspire all students. A former NYC public school teacher, she holds a PhD in Leadership and Change, and is the founder of the blog and podcast, Time for Teachership. Lindsay believes all students deserve literacy, criticality, and leadership skills. Archives
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