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In this episode, we speak with Laura Brenner, Chief Program Officer at Discovering Justice, a non profit in Boston, MA. She discusses her journey from an elementary school educator to a civic education leader, elaborating on the "Children Discovering Justice" curriculum, a collaborative initiative aimed at fostering classroom democracy and empowering young minds to actively engage in their communities.
Even before taking on her role with Discovering Justice, Laura has extensive experience in this space. She has spent the last 15 years working towards equity through public education—teaching students, coaching teachers, and developing curriculum. Laura began her career teaching elementary school in Boston, and has gone on to pursue both a Masters in Teaching and Masters in School Leadership as she pursues work outside the classroom. The Big Dream Laura’s big dream for education is to see all schools as places that equip students with the knowledge and skills to be engaged in their communities. She envisions a world where students, through inquiry and engaging practices, feel connected to their classroom community, school, and broader society. Laura believes this is possible by empowering young people to dismantle systems of oppression, embrace classroom democracy, and foster a joy of learning. Mindset Shifts Required A significant mindset shift that Laura highlights is recognizing that all educators are civics educators. She emphasizes that civics is not confined to a single subject but is embedded in everyday teaching practices. Whether it's teaching graphing using voting data or resolving playground disagreements, these activities all contribute to civic education. We need to start thinking of ourselves as civics teachers, especially early elementary educators, so it becomes something we all have a stake in. Action Steps To teach civics in our day-to-day classroom activities and begin a discussion around justice with students, educators must take brave actions. Here are three steps to put it into practice: Step 1: Prioritize time for civics education. It’s important that administrators and educators intentionally include instructional minutes for civics and social studies, the most marginalized subject. Studies have shown a correlation between social studies learning with student engagement, social-emotional learning, and literacy achievement! Step 2: Integrate civic skills throughout the day. In addition to intentional curriculum and teaching time, educators can also use daily practices to instill civic skills and language throughout the day. For example, you can create a classroom culture where you talk about taking different perspectives or practicing empathy. Step 3: Start a civics-based curriculum in your classroom. Educators can begin with Module Zero of the "Children Discovering Justice" curriculum, which focuses on foundational skills like identity, community, perspective-taking, and respectful listening. Challenges? One challenge Laura addresses is the misconception that discussing politics or civics in the classroom is inappropriate. There’s a fear from many educators and administrators around the topics, but avoiding them can only increase that fear. Instead, it’s important to foster inquiry-based learning, teaching students how to think critically and form their own ideas and opinions. Another challenge is the overloaded plates of educators. Laura asserts that civics education is not an additional burden but rather the foundation of all teaching, crucial for preparing students to be engaged community members. One Step to Get Started One practical step for educators to take is to equip themselves with tools and resources to incorporate civics language, concepts, and vocabulary into their classroom. Educators can start with incorporating just one lesson from Module Zero of the "Children Discovering Justice.” This initial step can help educators see the value and practicality of integrating civics education into their classrooms, setting the stage for a more comprehensive implementation. Instead of adding more to their plate, this is their “plate”—the foundation of everything we do as educators. Stay Connected You can connect with Laura by email, and learn more about her work with Discovering Justice by following them on Linkedin, Instagram, or their website. To help you implement today’s takeaways, Laura is sharing the Children Discovering Justice K-3 civics curriculum with you for free. And, if you’re looking for more details on the ideas in this blog post, listen to episode 185 of the Time for Teachership podcast. If you’re unable to listen or you prefer to read the full episode, you can find the transcript below. Quotes:
TRANSCRIPT Okay, laura Brenner, welcome to the Time for Teachership podcast. 0:00:07 - Laura Brenner Thank you, thanks for having me. 0:00:09 - Lindsay Lyons Yeah, I am really excited about our conversation because your job and what you do is like just makes my heart sing. So I'm really really excited to get into it and I think one of the big initial questions that I asked just kind of off the bat is a nice framing question. We will have folks who have just heard kind of your bio at the front end of the episode and so just wondering now, like is there anything else that's important for listeners to know about you, your work, anything you want them to keep in mind as we jump into our conversation? 0:00:40 - Laura Brenner Yeah, I think you know I have a really exciting job now being able to be at the intersection of civic education and nonprofits and schools and districts, and so you know the role I have now is chief program officer at Discovering Justice. But certainly at my core I'm an elementary educator and I think my lens for the work has just shifted a bit once I left the classroom. So now I get to work with educators and instructional leaders in schools and districts all across Massachusetts and it's allowed for our curriculum that we've developed to be what it is because it has so many different perspectives integrated into it, making sure we can meet the needs of students and teachers across the state. And I would just add that, like I'll be talking about this curriculum today called Children Discovering Justice, and I have the privilege of being able to talk about it a lot at professional development and, you know, at different meetings. But the collaboration that has gone into this curriculum, I think, is just a. It's a huge testament to the expertise and the passion of educators and administrators who've had a hand in it. So there's so, so many people from our staff at Discovering Justice. We have a curriculum developer, victoria Suri, who's really taken this curriculum to the next level, to consultants. We've worked with One in California, katie Henry's Meisners. These are all educators and district leaders who've really helped to conceptualize the units, teachers who've helped to give feedback. So it's such a collaborative joint effort and I think that's helpful to just consider as we start the conversation. 0:02:23 - Lindsay Lyons That is a beautiful framing. Thank you for that, and I and I think you spoke a little bit to this the idea of with all of that collaboration comes the ability to then make sure that all of students' needs and interests and passions and identities are all kind of reflected and appreciated. And so I'm I'm wondering this may or may not connect with what you had been thinking you were speaking to for the freedom dreaming question, but I love asking this question of right, like Dr Bettina Love talking about freedom dreaming as dreams grounded in the critique of injustice, and certainly that's so critical to what you do. So wondering if you can share what is that big dream that you hold for education with that in mind, yeah, I mean absolutely. 0:03:03 - Laura Brenner I love that idea as well and often try to put that to teachers and some of the PLCs that I run is getting them to think about. What does a classroom look like, feel like, sound like, when students are empowered to do all of those things to speak freely, to be leaders, to analyze oppression, dismantle systems of oppression? I think for me it looks like kind of on a simpler, broader level, all schools being places that equip all students with the knowledge, skills and dispositions to be engaged in their communities, and I think that speaks to what you mentioned in terms be engaged in their communities. And I think that speaks to what you mentioned in terms of bringing in their identities and making sure that they are reflected in the units that they're seeing and the conversations that they're having, that it connects to their lives and interests. And then I think you know on a deeper level that every day in schools, students are, through inquiry, through engaging practices, through culturally responsive pedagogy, through the joy of learning, are just feeling connected, feeling connected to each other in that classroom community, or a classroom democracy, as I often call it, to their school, broader school community and democracy, and that they're taking those feelings and skills and enthusiasm and joy beyond the walls of the classroom and school as well, and applying that to you know, help heal some of our communities and leaders of generations who didn't have access to that type of learning and be able to bring that to their lives and ultimately affect a more just democracy at large. 0:05:03 - Lindsay Lyons Wow, there is so much that I love in the response. I mean from just the phrase classroom democracy, which I've never heard I love that To just that idea of helping heal communities right, that actually young people can and do often, you know, go out into the world and go into their communities, like today, and heal and heal things that are have not been healed, and I just think that's a huge framing around. I mean, one of the next questions they usually ask is around mindset shifts, and I think for me that has been a huge one in the last few years is thinking about do we, how do we both kind of study oppression and injustice and disrupt it and heal it and and not just kind of linger in the oppression but to enable students to be healers and kind of co-create that healing in spaces and community? And so I think for me that's been a mindset shift, certainly with this work, and I'm wondering if there are any that you've either noticed or coached folks on when doing kind of this curricular work and building those class democracies and teaching about justice. 0:06:06 - Laura Brenner If there's anything that you think listeners should know, yeah, yeah, I mean it's so interesting the idea of healing democracy and healing communities and whose responsibility is that. And I remember struggling as a new educator with this idea of it's on the youth to do do that or that. You know there's so much pressure today on students to really fix a broken world on so many levels. But you know, through my experiences working with students and in communities again through the lens of being a classroom teacher myself and then an instructional leader and a nonprofit leader and just being in classrooms every week now across the state, like I do see that it is whether we want it to be that way or not. It is where we're at. We need everyone to have a stake and everyone, to you know, be involved and have a voice. And I think that's part of the Children Discovering Justice curriculum is helping to facilitate the conversations around how can I use my voice to advocate for justice. But I think you know the other part of that is teachers' responsibility, and one of the mindset shifts that I will often highlight in my professional development to teachers and administrators is that all educators are civics educators and I know certainly when I was an elementary school teacher I didn't think of myself as a civics teacher. If people asked you know what subjects do you teach? I would definitely say math and reading. Maybe, depending on the semester, I would say science, potentially social studies, but I would never say civics teacher. But you know, thinking back now the lens that I have now, thinking back to my time in the classroom when my second graders were learning about sequential writing or details in their writing and they were showcasing that by teaching skills to their peers. So I would have a student write step-by-step instructions on how to shoot a basket or make a paper crane, like whatever skill they thought that they had to teach their classmates, that was civics. When my fourth graders were learning about graphing and math and they were graphing recent voting data in their community, that was civics. When my fifth graders were solving disagreements and coming to a compromise or hearing each other's perspectives after a blow up on the playground, that was civics. And I think as educators, we need to start thinking of ourselves as civics teachers, especially early elementary educators, because it's so much of what we do in every part of the day, no matter what subject we're in, we're teaching these skills and dispositions of civics. So I think that's a huge mindset shift for myself to just name it as that and I think, to lift up the expertise that naturally exists in elementary spaces, that elementary teachers have been doing forever but maybe haven't been calling it that. And then just that we all have a stake in this work, kind of circling back to what you know, what I originally said about, kind of our responsibility to to heal, and that in order for our democracy to be more fair, more just, for our policymakers to to be more representative of our community like we, we have to start with with civics and in and again seeing ourselves as educators of that work. 0:09:58 - Lindsay Lyons I love that idea that all teachers are civics teachers. This is so beautiful and you're right, like so much of it is just the way we do things, the way we do teaching, the way we do school, like it is built in, and just to name it is so powerful. I really, really like that, and I think so many people may be thinking you know, okay. So what does it look like to teach civics? Well, what does it look like to discuss justice with students, especially young students, right, and so I'm wondering about, like, the literal, brave actions that are required for this work, and either I don't know if you want to take this from kind of a broad lens or from like, what does the curriculum enable teachers to do with students? However you want to take it, I'd love to hear, like, what does it look like in practice? 0:10:41 - Laura Brenner Yeah. So, you know, I think the first brave action that comes to mind that has to be taken, that I see a lot more district leaders now doing, is prioritizing time. And that's a scary and sensitive and hard topic, like instructional minutes and scheduling and time, and you know it's. I think it's gotten even harder through the years. But I think that is a brave and necessary action. To make that you know dream a reality is prioritizing instructional minutes for social studies and civics. Social studies is the most marginalized subject. It's not tested until at least in Massachusetts, the eighth grade MCAS, a civics MCAS which was piloted last spring, and of course the communities that tend to focus mostly on tested subjects reading and math tend to be lower income communities that serve black and brown students and families, and those are the students that are often getting the least amount of civics and social studies. So I think prioritizing time and minutes in the schedule for it and then, you know, a brave action by educators is, even if time isn't given to you like to make the time to teach social studies and civics, knowing that not only is it important but it is so correlated to all these areas of success for our students. It's correlated, it's positively correlated to attendance, to engagement, to, you know, social emotional learning, to literacy achievement. They're the you know I always reference, especially the district leaders, the Fordham study a few years ago that shows more time, more instructional time in ELA does not enhance reading scores but social studies does enhance reading scores and that's primarily true for lower income students, multilingual learners and girls. Those are the three subgroups who it has the most dramatic effect on. So I think just prioritizing it, naming it as a priority, investing in, you know, quality curriculum, quality professional development for teachers to be able to further dig into civics as a pedagogy, and whether it's using, you know, our Children Discovering Justice curriculum or just integrating and embedding civic skills and language throughout the day. So you know naming the skills that you're practicing and deepening for students as an elementary educator, like perspective taking or empathy or debate. I think both of those things. It's the concrete you know time and minutes and it's the ongoing classroom culture and routines that you know time and minutes. And it's the ongoing classroom culture and routines that you know you're teaching and practicing and calling out to students on a day-to-day level. 0:13:43 - Lindsay Lyons I was just in a professional development workshop where a teacher named I said something about the election is a great opportunity to discuss, like what's happening in the world and current events and how do we frame that, and the response was we can't teach politics in school. And I was like, oh, we absolutely can like talk about politics and civic engagement and like there's a difference between political and partisan, and I think there's just a very big kind of narrative fear, avoidance, whatever around things now that are even more expansive than like who you're voting for right, and so I am imagining that that's a piece of a challenge. Like maybe teacher's face or admin face or communication with families comes up, whatever it is. I'm wondering, is that a challenge? How do you kind of coach folks through that? Or are there other challenges that maybe I'm not thinking of that might come to mind that we want to like prepare leaders or teachers for? 0:14:45 - Laura Brenner Yeah, I mean it's certainly a fear that I hear a lot from educators or from school administrators, from families even, and I think, like a lot of fears the more we away from you know a day post-election or pre-election, like we were. It's coming down to that idea of inquiry-based learning. We're teaching students how to think and not what to think, with the skills to be able to articulate their points with evidence, that we want them to have media literacy and to be able to critique the sources that they're getting inundated with, whether it's through social media or online or their family. We want them to be able to debate respectfully, agree to disagree, you know, hear and respect other perspectives. Like those things are the most important part of our work in the classroom and those are, I mean, we can see them lacking in our broader world. We can see them those skills lacking in adults that I'm sure we can all you know name in our lives. Where else will students learn that Like they? It has to happen in the classroom and we have to give space and time for that. Now, it doesn't happen in every grade level with a conversation about what reproductive right should look like. It might happen in our first grade lesson on voting. Students are voting for what pet they would want as a class pet or a favorite ice cream flavor, like they're just starting to understand the idea that they have choices and a voice and opinions that can be different than those in their classroom space then, can be different than those that they eat lunch with or play with at recess. That that's okay and actually valued, to have different perspectives, that we have reasons for our perspectives that can be shared with evidence that we can change our ideas. You know we'll do. You know we'll have the conversation of students might go to one side of the room or the other to vote with their bodies on something and then see if anyone can be convinced to move to another side and just again name that and lift up that skill of being able to change your mind when you learn more information. So those are the conversations and the activities that we have to have and be doing in the classroom and yeah, it just looks different in every grade level. 0:17:28 - Lindsay Lyons Do you mind speaking to us? I love all of these activities and just kind of that approach of it's going to look different at each grade level, content wise and the skills just kind of keep building. Do you mind taking us through, like what are some, either questions that kind of frame, some of these units throughout the grades or any sort of like particular lessons or activities that you personally love? That's part of the curriculum. 0:17:53 - Laura Brenner Yeah. So I would say our module zero in all the grades is probably my now favorite module and it's something that we didn't create originally. We started with module one, which was about justice justice in our lives and students thinking about what we call little J justice, so justice on the playground in their classrooms, and then eventually, through the modules, they end up in module four, which is the civic action module, where they start to explore that big J justice, so some type of systems level change. We push them to be thinking even as young as kindergarten about root cause by asking you know, why might this challenge exist, why might this problem exist? Module zero was something that we added through teacher feedback, which, again, I'll name as another kind of brave action required for this work is listening to teachers. I mean, much of my time is spent in classrooms, in PLCs, in, you know, collaborative work sessions and professional development, where teachers are sharing their feedback, whether it's on large scale or, you know, a small critique on an activity in a lesson and we're applying that the next day or week because it's a living curriculum. It's on Google Drive, you know we're constantly updating and revising. So you know, I think, just listening to teachers in that. But that's how module zero came to be, with teacher feedback on like we'd love something more foundational that we can use at the beginning of the year in September and October to just build those skills. So we have six lessons in that module on identity, community perspective taking, agreeing, disagreeing, listening and asking questions. So I think probably the perspective taking is my favorite one, just because I've seen, again as early as kindergarten, students really grabbing onto that vocabulary and applying it and integrating it into their daily life. I remember I was doing my principal internship actually at a school that a teacher was piloting our original CDJ curriculum a few years ago and she was having a student who was having a challenging time at recess, got into an argument with a peer. I took him into my office to kind of deescalate and he was just so mad and frustrated and he looked at me and said, through his like tears and bunched up face, he's like I just have a different perspective. And again, this is like a JK student. So you know that's the language is something that students are thinking like. They're thinking in that way anyways and I think giving them that language helps to empower them to then go the next step of you know understanding and applying what perspective taking means and how. You know having different perspectives can be challenging but helps our community or democracy actually be a better place. And again, some activities around agreeing, disagreeing. You know going to one side of the room or the other ways to just visually show students that we all have different perspectives is, I think, a great way to highlight that in early education. 0:21:24 - Lindsay Lyons I love all of this. I love that story. I just yes, this is so good and the power of, I think, particularly if so, I taught high school and so particularly for teachers or administrators who maybe taught higher grades like not knowing what is possible for the younger grades, it's so powerful to hear that story of, yes, this totally works with kindergartners. It looks different but it is. It's the same kind of values and practices and it's highly possible and valuable, and so I just really appreciate you naming that for even maybe even a principal of a high school who's like okay, let me advocate for the elementary schools in my district to have this so that when they get to high school you know like we are equipped with all of these skills and we don't have to kind of teach or patch things that haven't been used or practiced prior to coming into that space. 0:22:14 - Laura Brenner So I think this is kind of everybody's business that young children are getting this kind of education Absolutely, and my hope is that the more students that are doing this in an early age we're going to see the result and the effect of that when they're in middle school and when they're in high school They'll come in with this vocabulary, with the dispositions to really value their voice in their community, to believe that they have a say, to know some pathways to get their voice heard and that it won't be there won't be so many gaps when students do maybe have more formal access to that as they're older. 0:22:53 - Lindsay Lyons I hope there's a research study in progress at some point, because that would be super cool. I would love that. That sounds amazing. So one thing that I think sometimes we get these big conversations on this podcast and we're like, okay, here's this big goal of implementing this whole curriculum. For example, I'm wondering what is one thing that a leader or teacher could do as soon as they end the episode to just kind of get them started with either looking into the curriculum or doing a particular practice in their classroom, to kind of build the foundation. What do you suggest is like a good starting step here? 0:23:31 - Laura Brenner suggest is like a good starting step here. Yeah, I think you know we see implementation on a really wide spectrum and encourage that. I think you know part of being educators ourselves everyone who's had a hand in developing this curriculum has come from the classroom and I think that's very evident when you look at the curriculum and unfortunately a rare thing when we see curriculums. So you know there are many teachers out there who don't necessarily teach the lessons of children discovering justice but they're just grabbing resources or materials. You know a lot of pull out educators who might take the civil discourse sentence stems and use that in some of their group discussions. Or use our virtual read aloud library and just put a book on during snack time. Or, you know, might take our vocabulary word wall and and teach some of the words during their phonics block, even as a way to just integrate some of those civics vocabulary and concepts without having a specific social studies or civics block. So I think, looking at those additional materials, you can find them at the bottom of the teacher guide or if you click into individual lessons, you can find them at the bottom in additional materials. So I think that's a good starting place and then I would encourage folks to give one lesson a try in that module zero, especially in the fall, you know, september, october, even November, just reminding students what it means to be a community, to listen respectfully, to value all of our perspectives. Even trying one lesson, I think, will break some of that maybe fear or barriers that this is too either challenging to teach or that it's too much on our plate to teach. I think that, you know, can be some pushback we get sometimes of like, of course, our plates are so beyond full. As educators, as elementary educators, you know we're teaching every subject. But what I'll often say to that is like this is the plate, it's not something added to it really tried to make the resources as flexible as possible to integrate it smoothly into what you're already doing. But the work that this is like that is why I think most of us are educators is not that we necessarily like want our students to become mathematicians or to become, you know, the best authors, like that's great if they will do those things. Like we want them to follow their passions. But before all of that like at the foundation is that they're prepared, just prepared to be engaged people in their community, to be connected to where they live and who they live with. You know, we're in a growing interconnected world on every level, and just that we're preparing students to be successful in that, whatever they, you know, choose to do. So it is the plate, it is the work, it is why we're here. 0:26:43 - Lindsay Lyons I love that that it is the plate. Yes, that is such a common thought and, like you said rightly so, we have so much going on. It is the plate. Yes, that is such a common thought and, like you said rightly so, we have so much going on. It is the plate, though. That is great. I'm going to use that. If that's okay with you, I'll credit you. I think one of the things, too, that listeners might be thinking is, or readers of the blog might be thinking is, where do I access that curriculum? So we will link that. Thank you so much for sharing that with folks, and so we'll link that access to the curriculum in the blog post for this episode. So anyone driving and feeling like I need to remember to come back to this you can doing in their own lives and their either work lives, personal lives. I think we always, as educators, are kind of lifelong learners, and so this question can be work related or it can be completely separate just for fun. But what have you been learning about lately as a human? 0:27:40 - Laura Brenner Yeah, such a good question. And yes, I think the educators are ones that are constantly craving education themselves. That's, educators are ones that are, you know, constantly craving education themselves. And so, as tempted as I am to answer it in a work-related way with, like, here's all the books I've been reading and the research I've been diving into on civic action and elementary level, you know, I think a lot of us are at a point in our careers and in our worlds and lives where we're trying harder to focus on balance and how, you know, we can do that, we can sustainably do this work. And so something I've been learning about lately on that on that note is really just grounding, trying to do something every day that grounds myself. It's so easy, you know, even when you leave the classroom, it's so easy to get caught up in this work, feeling so so urgent that you know every second, every five minutes matters in it. But even taking 30 seconds, I'm trying to do 30 seconds every day where I just put my bare feet on the ground outside in the grass and just do three deep breaths in and out. So that is something I've been learning lately and trying really hard to implement in practice. 0:28:59 - Lindsay Lyons That is really, really good. Thank you for adjusting that in such a thoughtful way. That is going to like honor, where everyone is as they're engaging with this conversation, so thank you. And then I think folks are going to want to where everyone is as they're engaging with this conversation, so thank you. And then I think folks are gonna wanna follow up with you and get the curriculum, all of the things. But I know you're constantly doing really innovative work, so how can folks either learn more about you, connect with you, follow the work of Discovering Justice Generally? Where are the places? 0:29:26 - Laura Brenner Yeah, so I love that you're sharing the curriculum. Again, it's a free resource, totally open source on Google Drive. We're constantly adding to it, updating it. We're going to be creating some election focused modules to come out this October, so to be more focused specifically on the 2024 presidential election, so you'll be able to access those resources. On our website, discoveringjusticeorg, you can sign up either for our organization's newsletter or, if you go to programs, children Discovering Justice, you can sign up for the Children Discovering Justice specific newsletter and that will really focus on any updates to the curriculum. You know we're translating it now, so we're going to have it in Portuguese and Spanish as well as English and, like I said, those election modules will come out. So follow us on that. And then you know, certainly we have social media at Discovering Justice and folks are welcome to send me an email lbrenner at discoveringjusticeorg or connect with me on LinkedIn to learn more and just to collaborate. Again, this circling back to the beginning the product that is Children Discovering Justice is just. It is a shared child of so many amazing, amazing educators, administrators, staff who have just poured so much of their expertise and their time and their passion and joy for learning into this work, and so the more people that have their hands, their eyes on the curriculum, whose voice goes into it, I think, the better it is for that. So we welcome all the connections and all the eyes and ears and conversations. 0:31:11 - Lindsay Lyons Amazing, laura. Thank you so much. It has been an absolute pleasure, thank you. Thank you for having me, lindsay. Transcribed by https://podium.page
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AuthorLindsay Lyons (she/her) is an educational justice coach who works with teachers and school leaders to inspire educational innovation for racial and gender justice, design curricula grounded in student voice, and build capacity for shared leadership. Lindsay taught in NYC public schools, holds a PhD in Leadership and Change, and is the founder of the educational blog and podcast, Time for Teachership. Archives
November 2024
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